Interesting. I have now checked the composition of part A and part B.
Part A:
AF-2000
Sodium (Bi)carbonate
Sodium bromide
Part B:
Sodium sulphite
CD-3
There is probably an equal amount of Anti-Calcium 4 in both parts. I really have no idea where that color could come from - part A must have a pretty long shelf life.
Yes, the developer of ecn-2 is so simple that it seems like heaven to the configurator
can you tell me the formula of ECN2 concentrate?
Dear master, can you tell me the formula of ECN2 concentrate? It is quite troublesome to configure the working fluid from scratch every time.
Tetenal's kits used 100ml liquid to provide the CD-4 for 1 liter of working solution
Given that a working C41 developer generally contains 4.5 to 5g per liter of CD4, it follows that the Tetenal concentrate is not all that concentrated. It's easy to go much higher, but at the cost of possible measurement inaccuracies when mixing the working strength liquid.
Btw, the Fuji minilab developer concentrate for CN16 (C41) is more concentrated. I could check the kit I have in store.
The trick to a developer concentrate is to make it last. I've never done any serious work on this, but I did notice in some small tests how quickly a concentrated, watery solution of CD4 goes off.
Interesting. I have now checked the composition of part A and part B.
Part A:
AF-2000
Sodium (Bi)carbonate
Sodium bromide
Part B:
Sodium sulphite
CD-3
There is probably an equal amount of Anti-Calcium 4 in both parts. I really have no idea where that color could come from - part A must have a pretty long shelf life.
Hello,
yes, the formulas are officially published by Kodak (I am attaching the document). You can see the formulas on page 7-27.
Regarding the commercial Kodak packs - I looked at the MSDS info. They do not publish all components, but only the most dangerous. There are also no exact amounts there. But once we know the formula, it's easy to work out what and how much is in the two packages.
Yes, the C-41 process uses a CD4 developing agent and a different set of chemistry. But this thread (and Kodak Module 7) is about a different process - ECN-2. Although you can process C-41 in ECN-2 chemistry and vice versa, in general it can lead to quite a few problems. In the Koraks god link you quoted, you can see that in addition to C-41, there is a section for ECN-2. He has slightly modified the formula, but his modifications do not change the final result. It just keeps things simple, but with the caveat that the working solution will be disposable. This avoids some chemicals that are very difficult to access or absurdly expensive, but at the same time are auxiliary and do not participate in the formation of the image.
Formulas are given for direct dilution, not for creating concentrates. Commercial packaging may include additional chemicals to provide the most stable and long-lasting solutions possible.
If I had to phrase Part A it would be:
Anti-Calcium #4 - 20.0 ml
Sodium Bromide - 12.0 g
Sodium Carbonate - 256.0 g
Sodium Bicarbonate - 27.0 g
AF-2000 - 50.0 ml
Water up to 2 liters
Part B would be:
Sodium Sulfite - 20.0 g
CD-3 - 40.0 g
Water up to 500 ml
This concentrate is for 10 liters of working solution. Mixing
4:1:15 (four parts of A, one part of B and fifteen parts of water).
Or for 500 ml working solution:
100 ml of A
25 ml B
375 ml of water
for one liter:
200 ml of A
50 ml B
750 ml of water
IMPORTANT!!!
Part B will be wrong!!! The CD3 developing agent is the critical part - while part A of the concentrate will have a long life, part B will have a very short life. The small amount of sodium sulfite cannot protect against CD3 for a long time. One way to extend life is to make a highly acidic concentrate. CD3 itself is acidic, but sodium sulfite is alkaline. There is sodium metabisulfite in the C-41 and E-6 chemistry kits which would provide some temporary solution. With ECN-2, there is no metabisulfite in the official formula, so if it is added, a lot of changes in the composition must be made. As far as I know, some commercial putties do, as well as Kodak's commercial chemistry itself.
Because things get complicated and with an increased chance of something going wrong, it's better to make only concentrate A, to which the sodium sulfite from B is added, and to remove the extra ingredients if they are hard to find or expensive. And these are AF-2000 and possibly Anti-Calcium #4. If Anti-Calcium #4 is omitted, you will need to adjust the pH of the solution. The critical component CD3 remains - you add it immediately before use in the working solution (2 g for 500 ml, 4 g for 1 liter). You adjust the pH after dissolving the CD3 because it is quite acidic.
I think this is from recipe differences between different manufacturers, may be is normal.
The ECN2 Dev I purchased before was from China Sinopromise. It is a colorless and transparent liquid. Now it is bankrupt.
I see yours is produced in Germany,it has different CAT number.
Yes, the C-41 process uses a CD4 developing agent and a different set of chemistry. But this thread (and Kodak Module 7) is about a different process - ECN-2. Although you can process C-41 in ECN-2 chemistry and vice versa, in general it can lead to quite a few problems. In the Koraks god link you quoted, you can see that in addition to C-41, there is a section for ECN-2. He has slightly modified the formula, but his modifications do not change the final result. It just keeps things simple, but with the caveat that the working solution will be disposable. This avoids some chemicals that are very difficult to access or absurdly expensive, but at the same time are auxiliary and do not participate in the formation of the image.
Formulas are given for direct dilution, not for creating concentrates. Commercial packaging may include additional chemicals to provide the most stable and long-lasting solutions possible.
If I had to phrase Part A it would be:
Anti-Calcium #4 - 20.0 ml
Sodium Bromide - 12.0 g
Sodium Carbonate - 256.0 g
Sodium Bicarbonate - 27.0 g
AF-2000 - 50.0 ml
Water up to 2 liters
Part B would be:
Sodium Sulfite - 20.0 g
CD-3 - 40.0 g
Water up to 500 ml
This concentrate is for 10 liters of working solution. Mixing
4:1:15 (four parts of A, one part of B and fifteen parts of water).
Or for 500 ml working solution:
100 ml of A
25 ml B
375 ml of water
for one liter:
200 ml of A
50 ml B
750 ml of water
IMPORTANT!!!
Part B will be wrong!!! The CD3 developing agent is the critical part - while part A of the concentrate will have a long life, part B will have a very short life. The small amount of sodium sulfite cannot protect against CD3 for a long time. One way to extend life is to make a highly acidic concentrate. CD3 itself is acidic, but sodium sulfite is alkaline. There is sodium metabisulfite in the C-41 and E-6 chemistry kits which would provide some temporary solution. With ECN-2, there is no metabisulfite in the official formula, so if it is added, a lot of changes in the composition must be made. As far as I know, some commercial putties do, as well as Kodak's commercial chemistry itself.
Because things get complicated and with an increased chance of something going wrong, it's better to make only concentrate A, to which the sodium sulfite from B is added, and to remove the extra ingredients if they are hard to find or expensive. And these are AF-2000 and possibly Anti-Calcium #4. If Anti-Calcium #4 is omitted, you will need to adjust the pH of the solution. The critical component CD3 remains - you add it immediately before use in the working solution (2 g for 500 ml, 4 g for 1 liter). You adjust the pH after dissolving the CD3 because it is quite acidic.
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