Ebay/paypal policy change... Seller Beware!

[keithwms]

I just discovered, the hard way, that there is a new ebay/paypal policy change that is really very annoying and arbitrarily applied.

The policy, sent to me by an agent of ebay is this:

For a very small percentage of sellers, PayPal temporarily will hold a
payment received up to a maximum of 21 days. The amounts held will
appear as Pending in your PayPal account until PayPal releases the
funds. During this time, you still have access to all other funds in
your PayPal account.

PayPal will release the hold when the earliest of the following occurs:
" The buyer leaves positive feedback,
" 3 days after confirmed item delivery* or
" 21 days without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed on
that transaction.

In other words.... they actually expect a seller to ship the item before receiving payment transfered from paypal. And then still wait some more days after that! Now, this is entirely unacceptable in my view- it asks the seller to part with the item and then wait for paypal to transfer the funds... at their discretion (they decide when to release the funds). So it leaves the seller without the item and without the funds.

Now here is the other bit that shows how poorly conceived this policy is: I contacted paypal about a hold that was placed and they said, oh no, we don't place the hold, ebay places the hold! So then apparently the company that holds your funds can't even control when to release them!!!

As for me, after incurring one of these holds I protested and got numerous brain-dead responses from various agents. In my case, I and the seller communicated, we both have ~100% feedback ratings on a number of sales, and were both willing to release the hold. I spoke with agents at ebay and paypal many times and they simply don't realize how silly and arbitrary this is, and how much business they will lose.

So... seller beware!

N.b. they won't say what triggers a hold, they just say "for a very small percentage of sellers" ... but I and my buyer suspect that it is a cost in excess of $1000. So you could try to skate under that but... my advice is to steer clear of paypal entirely until they (inevitably) realize how dumb this new policy is.

 

[wilsonneal]

when does/did this take effect? thanks for the heads up.

 

[keithwms]

It's already taken effect. I and my buyer have been pulling our hair out for weeks now trying to figure out what's up.

If we are right that the trigger is a $1000+ price, then this certainly affects a lot of sales of photo equipment and prints.

 

[domaz]

I sold something on Ebay for $25 and they held the funds. Laughable.

 

[Mike1234]

I Haven't...

...done eBay or PayPal for years now. Both are a complete and utter mess thanks to poor ownership/management from Meg and Pierre.

 

[memorris]

We have a vendor who at one time wanted to receive payment via PayPal because it was much more convenient. Some time ago he asked us to begin paying by check because he was getting holds placed on the funds on a regular basis. All trensactions were seeral thousand dollars.

 

[removed account4]

they must be holding people's money
to make short term investments
in the stock market ...

 

[removed account4]

We have a vendor who at one time wanted to receive payment via PayPal because it was much more convenient. Some time ago he asked us to begin paying by check because he was getting holds placed on the funds on a regular basis. All trensactions were seeral thousand dollars.

the founder has nothing to do with it, i thought ...
pierre got out years ago, didn't he ?

 

[Tjibs]

I recently sold a Contax I on eBay, and the funds were held as well. Sadly I had no choice, and had to ship the item. Eventually I did receive the payment, but it sure was a pita, especially as it was supposed to be a quick sell to get some funds in for a trip. This was definitely not above 1000$, the trigger seems to be quite random.

It's probably the last time I will sell something on eBay, as it has been getting worse by the month.
They have also been enforcing the detailed seller feedback: Buyers give a rating from 1 to 5 for various portions of your service. However, if ANY of these ratings drop below 4.1 (Remember, this is on a scale from 1 to 5), you are suspended from listing ANY items on eBay, until your DSR improves. Which is quite idiotic, as you cannot list new items, thus improving your DSR is pretty much impossible. This feedback also heavily changes how your items are listed when searched for, as with DSRs of 4.3, you'll most likely end up last in any search result. Personally, on a scale from 1 to 5, 4 seems positive. eBay does not seem to think so...
I believe buyers should be made aware that a 4 is considered bad on eBay, and not the current "Five stars is the highest rating, and one star is the lowest." that is to inform buyers when rating a seller.

 

[guissimo]

This isn't new. I learned the hard way a few months ago when I sold a lens. I ended up waiting the full 21 days because the buyer left me feedback after he came back from his vacation. This was two weeks after he received the lens...

 

[removed account4]

i think the problem is that there are some really bad sellers (and buyers )
out there. i have bought items ( photographic ) from people
who harassed me, sold me something that was broken
and then tried to blackmail me into giving them positive feedback.
i also was a seller of an item, years ago, and it was bid on by someone
who had a suspended account, and was using someone else's user name &C
because he were not permitted to buy, since he was scamming people ...

so, as much of a pita as it is, maybe this is the only way e-boo can get a grip on things ...

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I learned about this a few weeks ago as a buyer. The seller said that for sellers with fewer than 100 positive feedback ratings, if the item is over $100, they wouldn't release the funds until the buyer leaves feedback or after 21 days. Seems like they're trying to squeeze more money out of the float to me.

 

[jaimeb82]

I found that Eway and PayPay are very good about using one each other, whenever I have an issue they reply that's not us it is related to Way's. I suggest explaining that in a short sentence under every item. After someone wins ask the winner to cancel payment, but ask them to make payment to you anyway using PayPay in good faith, make a legal contract via email if necessary. If PayPay still hold your funds, they can not blame Eway.

 

[keithwms]

John, I can see applying this to buyers/sellers who have caused problems in the past. But I and my buyer both have 100% feedback. One wonders what the next reward for good behavior will be.

 

[jaimeb82]

I am waiting for a minolta to arrive for like near a month now, I hope it has something to do with this, because I am starting to think seller decided not to send it or something.

 

[jaimeb82]

I agree with keithwms, you are a seller with 10% negative feedback wait 10 days, your are a seller with 20% negative feedback? wait 20 days...etc... this way sellers would be much careful about doing bad business and buyer decides what sellers to go with.

 

[keithwms]

Jaime, if you paid by paypal then this is indeed possibly what happened. The seller needs to go to his/her paypal account and check whether the payment is being held. I don't know whether you as the buyer can see the hold. My buyer said the funds left his account ages ago... and so of course he was wondering why I hadn't shipped. So in addition to being really dumb in general, this new policy also breeds all kinds of mistrust between the buyer and seller... the buyer doesn't know what's up for a long, long time.

 

[Sirius Glass]

So typical, when there are a few scammers around, the innocent get punished until the system realizes that the new policy needs to be revised. I hate to see honest buyer and sellers hurt or inconvenienced by poorly thought out polices.

Steve

 

[jaimeb82]

I am calling up today, I made payment July 14th.

 

[Ralph Javins]

Good morning,

At least you guys are allowed to bid and arrange to purchase an item on e-Bay. There may be an interminable delay, but you can do it

If you do not have a PayPal account, you are not even allowed to make a bid.

I have not purchased anything there since last fall when they implemented their "PayPal required" payment policy. Messages to them beginning last summer when they said there were going to do this produced no meaningful response or explanation why they did this. I think the main reason is just their financial advantage. It has nothing to do with a benefit to either the seller or the buyer.

 

[archphoto]

Done with as a BUYER with PayPal: holding my payments for no reasons and therefore delaying shipment of what I ordered.

This goes both way's: to seller AND buyer.

Delayed feedback should have no affect on the selling-buying process at all, unless in this case where I, as a buyer, am forced to give a 100% feedback BEFORE I received the goods.

I am doing some bussiness with Germany, it is closeby to Holland after all, and pay by internet banking.
Advantages: the money gets there in a day and I get the goods where I want it, not my empty home in The Hague.
Esp. handy then they ship by Hermes or DHL or....
When the seller ships by mail it is seldom a problem: the package can be picked-up at the post office.

A buyers view to things......

Peter

 

[nickrapak]

N.b. they won't say what triggers a hold, they just say "for a very small percentage of sellers" ... but I and my buyer suspect that it is a cost in excess of $1000. So you could try to skate under that but... my advice is to steer clear of paypal entirely until they (inevitably) realize how dumb this new policy is.

eBay/PayPal realize a mistake? Never!

The problem is that for all intents and purposes eBay is the only game in town, and definitely the one with the widest audience. They could charge $100 per auction, to be paid in North Korean Won directly to the homeless guy on 13th and Market Streets in Philadelphia, who will proceed to beat you over the head with rotten meat, and people will still pay the price.

There is one thing I have noticed, however. Over the past year or so, the number of small-time sellers, those with feedback under 500, has dwindled significantly, while the number of international "powersellers" has doubled. I think this is eBay's attempt to squeeze out those people trying to make an honest buck, and embrace those that lie, cheat, and steal but give eBay more in seller fees and PayPal more in merchant costs.

 

[dbonamo]

........ So in addition to being really dumb in general, this new policy also breeds all kinds of mistrust between the buyer and seller... the buyer doesn't know what's up for a long, long time.

So very true. As a seller I have not been impacted (Yet!) by this policy, but as a buyer I have. I purchased an item from a relatively new to eBay member, well new to selling at least. Feedback was 100% but about 35 or so. Item was about 120.00. I promptly paid. I got an email from the seller saying he will ship when my payment cleared. Scratching my head thinking I used "instant transfer" not and echeck feature, funds should not be pending. After a few hours of email's and phone calls to Paypal and seller it was resolved. The seller called Paypal who explained everthing. The seller shipped, item arrived next day, I left + feedback, seller got funds release all in 3 days.

eBay has announce yet more changes that affect sellers today. I have not read completely them yet, but now they will not allow you to offer shipping insurance as an option. They claim as the seller you are responsible for the item until it reaches the buyer, so if you have the choice on insuring but cannot charge the buyer for it.

 

[JBrunner]

they must be holding people's money
to make short term investments
in the stock market ...

This is exactly the case. When you have a company that has large amounts of money that doesn't belong to you flowing through it, creating a dam and thereby creating a lake that you draw interest on is a basic money making strategy. Advertising agencies are notorious for this tactic. The vendor suffers waiting for payment, while they make money on your money. I tried applying finance charges, but they ignore them, and eventually pay only the original invoice. Then you're left chasing them down for minor charges, and they know it isn't worth your time. Push it hard enough and you will have no clients. Because of this and because competition is usually keen for their business, there are few complaints, or in the case of Epay/PP since they pretty much own the market, and make more money doing this than the business they are losing over it, they don't care about the complaints, so don't expect the practice to go away. Rat b@$tards.

 

[thisismyname09]

I've dealt with this policy since I've been using ebay, both as a seller and buyer. It's annoying, but really not too problematic. I don't see why people are holding off on shipping items until the payment clears. The point of the whole thing is to not give the seller the money until the item has been received. Waiting 21 days to ship is slower than shipping it and hoping you get positive feedback after they receive it.