Early Deadorff V8 8X10 full restoration project (with photos!)

[CatLABS]

Just finished working on this early V8 dorff.
Check out the results:


Lots of photos of the whole process here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.593278400791000.1073741842.276274625824714&type=1

Some words about the LF deardorff people B Cochran and ken kough, without which this project might have looked a little different.
Ken was helpful, and gave some sounds advice (after suggesting i let him do the work, to which i politely refused), but refused to divulge the actual name or color of the original stain used on this camera. Not that big a deal, as he said the company that made the original stain went out of business in 2012. Still could have been useful.

I bought a bunch of parts from Cochran on Ebay, only to find that a day later he lowered all priced by 25-35% on all the items i purchased. I asked for the difference, and was told i would get a refund, but never did. It took about 10 days for them to get the parts in the mail. The finish on some of the custom metal parts was ehh so so, as this is all machine cut, i thought it would be top notch. They look ok, just not what i expected.

They promised torx screws in the complete screw set on ebay. At the end there were 2 sets of hex screws out of about 25...
Who in the world still uses slotted screws and why???? This is by far the dumbest thing in the world. Does it look better? how much better does it look when all your slotted screw heads are stripped... The screws are made of a fairly soft metal, and have a super shiny coating which is nice, but not very useful. So much more work for no good reason, but not their fault. I wish it was all torx/hex or even phillips would be so much easier to torque up and not have to over power your screwdriver on such soft and fragile wood. Eventually i got them all in.

Some of what happened:
I just finished restoring this beautiful Deardorff V8 8X10 field camera. It was a grueling process, but it was also so much fun discovering the inner workings of this beast of a camera, and finally looking at the finished camera, shiny and gleaming, ready to make some great photos once again.

The camera got to us after having spent about 30 years in a barn in Rhode Island, exposed to the elements, it had rust and corrosion everywhere, flaking off finish, and some pretty ugly bellows. Luckily, the bones were in good shape, and the amazing cherry wood this camera is made of survived quite nicely under all those coats of lacquer even after all those years of abuse.

I started by taking it all apart, which was really the hardest part, as so many of the screws were rotted through the wood, and were seized. Why would anyone use slotted screws on anything? Especially when it has to do with wood??? I used every trick in the book, but eventually got all the parts separated with zero damage.

All the wood got sanded down to its core by hand, stained, and coated with MANY layers of stain and protective coating. The original Deardorff cameras had more then 20 layers applied at the factory.

all metal parts were broken down, cleaned, soaked, brushed and polished.

With the help of a brand new bellows (made of fully waterproof and ultralight material), complete set of new screws, a new leather handle, and some other new bits, the camera was ready t be put back together. At first it seemed that taking it apart would be easier then putting it back together, but this camera is so simple, and the design is so intuitive, it went much faster then it took to break it down.

I decided to leave some of the patina this camera had, and left most of the metal hardware with their blemishes (as long as they did not interfere with using the camera). The result speaks for itself - a restored camera with a feel and look of a well cared for and age hardened piece of history.

The final result is phenomenal. It is really a thing of beauty, and such a joy to open and close. The movements are buttery smooth as Deardorffs usually are and the shiny knobs and and finish are a pleasure to use.

 

[Alan Gales]

Nice job, it looks fantastic! I'd be proud too.

Back then they used standard slotted screws for everything. I've dealt with them myself plenty of times so I feel your pain.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Beautiful job!.
I have V8 # 553, which is the 54th made with front swings. It came to me in the late 80s, very well used but with light tight original leather bellows. I refinished it because the original finish was so bad it would no longer protect the wood. A phone call to Jack Deardoff netted the information that it was originally lacquered, and that some of the very early ones were shellaced. I was able to reuse almost 100% of the original hardware - the four rivets for the handle brackets and the handle were the only replacements.
Slotted screws are perfectly good, even when of nickel plated brass. As long as your screwdriver fits the slots properly there will be no marring, and lining up all the slots - as you would see on fine furniture and fine guns - gives a nice effect.
Also, the reason that the "cherrywood" it is made of is so amazing is because it's not cherry but pattern grade mahogany of a species no longer available in commercial quantities.

Lubricate the sliding parts with beeswax, melt the wax and stir in some flake graphite say three tbsp. to four ounces of wax. Rub the cooled wax on the sliding surfaces.

 

[Alan Gales]

E. is right about using the proper size screwdriver for the slotted screw. I've just messed with so many that someone had previously boogered up.

 

[CatLABS]

E. is right about using the proper size screwdriver for the slotted screw. I've just messed with so many that someone had previously boogered up.

Thats exactly my point - with a phillips or hex or torx screws, its much harder to not use the correct screw driver, because only one will fit properly where as with slotted screws, well pretty much anything flat will fit... for knuckleheads like me, it's much easier to not screw things up that way

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Thats exactly my point - with a phillips or hex or torx screws, its much harder to not use the correct screw driver, because only one will fit properly where as with slotted screws, well pretty much anything flat will fit... for knuckleheads like me, it's much easier to not screw things up that way

Nope.
The screwdriver must fit the length and width of the slot precisely, and be filed or ground hollow so the flats of the blade are parallel and square with the end. The metal of the blade must be hard, just soft enough to file. If these conditions obtain and the tool is used properly it will not slip in or mark the slot.
Needless to say the only way to ensure the screwdriver fits the slot is to file or grind it to fit the particular screw(s).
Typical hardware store screwdrivers are good for opening cans of paint or as light duty prybars, they are improperly formed and rarely hard enough to trust.

I made mine out of hardened and tempered drillrod, from about 2mm up. If they don't fit the screw I'm using them on, I fit them to the screw.

 

[Alan Gales]

Nope.
The screwdriver must fit the length and width of the slot precisely, and be filed or ground hollow so the flats of the blade are parallel and square with the end. The metal of the blade must be hard, just soft enough to file. If these conditions obtain and the tool is used properly it will not slip in or mark the slot.
Needless to say the only way to ensure the screwdriver fits the slot is to file or grind it to fit the particular screw(s).
Typical hardware store screwdrivers are good for opening cans of paint or as light duty prybars, they are improperly formed and rarely hard enough to trust.

I made mine out of hardened and tempered drillrod, from about 2mm up. If they don't fit the screw I'm using them on, I fit them to the screw.

Boy are you picky, E. I bet you even buy those expensive right handed and left handed screwdrivers!

 

[CatLABS]

Nope.
The screwdriver must fit the length and width of the slot precisely, and be filed or ground hollow so the flats of the blade are parallel and square with the end. The metal of the blade must be hard, just soft enough to file. If these conditions obtain and the tool is used properly it will not slip in or mark the slot.
Needless to say the only way to ensure the screwdriver fits the slot is to file or grind it to fit the particular screw(s).
Typical hardware store screwdrivers are good for opening cans of paint or as light duty prybars, they are improperly formed and rarely hard enough to trust.

I made mine out of hardened and tempered drillrod, from about 2mm up. If they don't fit the screw I'm using them on, I fit them to the screw.

That is all true, but what i meant was that any flat screw driver will fit in pretty much any slotted screw, weather it is the right size or not. A hex or torx key, will not fit at all if it is the wrong size, eliminating the need to match a tool to a specific screw by manually adjusting it and testing before going at it. With at least 30 different screw sizes on this camera it would have been much faster and easier, not to mention have have so much more control, even at an angle with anything other then a slotted screw.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Nice camera, and good work getting buttery smooth movements. That is not a given, or always an easy thing to fix, with a camera in rough condition.

I understand your point about the screws, but like the slotted screws in such an old fashioned looking camera. Fred Picker bad mouthed them no end for using wood screws at all and ranted about the numerous problems that resulted, none of which ever bothered me.

I talked to Jack a couple times also when I first got into large format. Always very entertaining. I think I still have a letter around from him on the very nice company stationery. Plus some of the old dealer literature.

I like the look of these early models, though I didn't always. Many had a pretty, supple, red leather bellows. And the gold painted hardware was certainly an interesting touch.

 

[CatLABS]

...And the gold painted hardware was certainly an interesting touch.

The gold is actually the brass hardware, which was originally nickel plated. The plating on those parts had either completely eroded, or was so badly oxidized it just came off with the lightest brushing... I figured it would be nicer to have a shiny clean look where i can. Replating the whole thing would have been nicer, but that would also be totally out of my league...

BTW - camera was just sold.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Boy are you picky, E. I bet you even buy those expensive right handed and left handed screwdrivers!

I don't buy screwdrivers (except for Reed & Prince / Phillips types although I could make them on a horizontal mill), I make them - as I pointed out.
The set I made out of drillrod 30 years ago still serve me.
Using an ill-fitting screwdriver and marring the screw is inexcusably bad workmanship, and if the screw is on a watch or a nice old Sedgely Springfield it should be a capitol offense.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

The very early ones hard gold paint on the brass, with the aluminum parts bare. Maybe yours was a bit later; Ken would know when they started plating them.

 

[CatLABS]

From what i understood, they used parts as they were available, and this camera has a mix of brass, copper and aluminum hardware some plated, some not.

Also - so many cameras went in for service over the years (this camera is at least 70+ years old) and the parts used in repair were the current ones being used, thus making it hard to say anything about a camera by its actual appearance. This camera did not have a SN on it either... As i understood it, some workers at the factory used SN plates, other did not, and those were only recorded when the secretary was in the office, which was not each and every day, especially in the earlier days.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

The very early ones hard gold paint on the brass, with the aluminum parts bare. Maybe yours was a bit later; Ken would know when they started plating them.

IIRC, the very earliest ones had cast Al rear standards. The one I mentioned above has no original Al, the exception being the square baseplate I machined for it. Mine also has the rubber feet on the bed.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

From what i understood, they used parts as they were available, and this camera has a mix of brass, copper and aluminum hardware some plated, some not.

Also - so many cameras went in for service over the years (this camera is at least 70+ years old) and the parts used in repair were the current ones being used, thus making it hard to say anything about a camera by its actual appearance. This camera did not have a SN on it either... As i understood it, some workers at the factory used SN plates, other did not, and those were only recorded when the secretary was in the office, which was not each and every day, especially in the earlier days.

Numbering for the V8s started at 500 with the first front swing V8 about 1950. The 4x5 Specials started at 1000, IIRC.

 

[CatLABS]

Numbering for the V8s started at 500 with the first front swing V8 about 1950. The 4x5 Specials started at 1000, IIRC.

Yes, thats what i read. I wonder how many cameras were actually made prior to the numbering... perhaps not more then 500...

The more incredible thing here, is that out of the MANY camera makers around the world, and surely some made more cameras and better cameras then deardorff did at any given time, so many well known photographers use a deardorff in and out of the US. I wonder if there is another such well used brand of camera in LF...?

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Yes, thats what i read. I wonder how many cameras were actually made prior to the numbering... perhaps not more then 500...

The more incredible thing here, is that out of the MANY camera makers around the world, and surely some made more cameras and better cameras then Deardorff did at any given time, so many well known photographers use a deardorff in and out of the US. I wonder if there is another such well used brand of camera in LF...?

Note the capital "D". If you read what I posted, why did you post that nonsense about the serial plates? And what about the cherry/mahogany nonsense?

More? No doubt. Better? Maybe, the only camera I've ever touched that I'd accept in trade -if I had to- for my V8 is a Gandolfi.
To define "better", you'd have to look at the survival rate of the cameras - but that would also include how their owners/users value them, so not 100% accurate.

I'll never part with mine.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

That is all true, but what i meant was that any flat screw driver will fit in pretty much any slotted screw, weather it is the right size or not. A hex or torx key, will not fit at all if it is the wrong size, eliminating the need to match a tool to a specific screw by manually adjusting it and testing before going at it. With at least 30 different screw sizes on this camera it would have been much faster and easier, not to mention have have so much more control, even at an angle with anything other then a slotted screw.

Jesus. No it won't, it either fits properly or it doesn't.
What's so hard to understand here?

I've seen hex sockets stripped by using a metric wrench in an inchric bolt. I've seen screwdrivers hammered into a torx socket. Drilling a grade 8 hex bolt to remove it after some monkey ruined it is no picnic, I can tell you. I won't even get myself started on the several crosspoint styles that most people are unaware of, crosspoint is Phillips, right? Wrong. Robertson square drive, and on and on. 300 year old hand made slotted screws that have a v-shaped slot rather than a square bottomed slot... If you're careless you'll ruin them all.
No fastener is immune to carelessness.

 

[Axle]

Amazing Job on the restoration! Once I get a second 4x5 I'll be doing one on my beat-up Speed Graphic.

 

[CatLABS]

why did you post that nonsense about the serial plates?

Not sure what you are asking about.

Slotted screws are easier to mess up. It's a fact of life. Hex and Torx screws are easier for me to use, because a tool either fits, or it does not.
A flat anything, can fit into a slotted screw, whats so hard to understand about that?

"Inchric" - did you mean "United States customary units", also sometimes called "SAE"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units

Unfortunately, the V8 was made in the US, and suffers from this customary United States silliness, except where torx screws are used.

Luckily for us lazy and irresponsible people, its easier, and cheaper, to buy proper fitting tools for both hex and torx, than it is to make your own flat head screwdrivers.

 

[CatLABS]

Amazing Job on the restoration! Once I get a second 4x5 I'll be doing one on my beat-up Speed Graphic.

- thanks! good luck!