E-6 and C-41 Processing for Beginners

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snegron

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I have absolutely no color darkroom experience, however I would like to learn how to process my own color slides and negatives for both 35mm and 120. Are there any books out there that describe the process? Any recomendations? I love film and I refuse to give up on it just because many labs out there are sadly caving in to digital users.

I would like to know the simplest, most effective way of processing my own color film. I don't have access to a darkroom ( a bathroom will have to do), and I plan to scan the negatives or slides for printing myself for the time being. Any suggestions are welcome.
 

Snapshot

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Temperature control is the most vital aspect of C-41 and E-6 processing. You have to find an approach that will allow you have accurate and consistent temperatures, especially during the initial steps.

The basic steps for E-6 are...

-Presoak
-First developer
-Wash
-Reversal
-Color Developer
-Pre Bleach
-Bleach
-Fixer
-Final rinse

The basic steps for C-41 are

- Prewash
- Developer
- Bleach
- Fixer
- Wash
- Stabilizer

I hope this helps a little.
 

Nick Zentena

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Type the following into Google.

Kodak z-130
Kodak z-119

I think those are the two manuals.

If you don't want a processor get yourself a picnic cooler and a fish tank heater. The combination will go a long way with some care.
 

Mick Fagan

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I haven't developed E6 for a couple of years, prior to that I did about 25 - 30 rolls a year for about 15 years

C41 I have been developing for about 20 years. With both films I have never done a pre-soak or pre-wash. Having worked in a commercial pro-lab, I never once saw any evidence of either of these things. Also I have never seen in any high street mini-lab, a pre-soak or pre-wash, so I'm not entirely convinced it is a requirement. That doesn't imply that it could be beneficial, it may be, but I have yet to be convinced of this as a requirement.

If you are going to do E6 then I think the best way is for you to use the Kodak chemicals. In my opinion Kodak is the master of E6 chemicals. This is really only my gut feeling received from seeing just how my films came out over the years, nothing at all to do with technical inside knowledge.

For C41 there is a system that I use which I gleaned from Darkroom and Creative Camera Techniques many years ago. Prior to this article coming out I was mixing C41 from scratch and the negatives, whilst alright, didn't have the colour gamut I thought they should have had.

The best book I have on some colour film developing and/or printing for an amateur, is "Perfect Color Printing" Every Photographer's Guide to Good Color. This magazine style publication was put out in about 1989/90. I bought my copy in January 1990.

I believe that Preston Publications who put this out, among other year books, still have copies available, or a re-print available.

The cost at the time was $6 US, quite cheap.

Back to C41 processing:-

On page 6 of the publication is an article by Bertram W. Miller. The basics of his article is that there is some advantage in using Kodak's proprietary Flexicolor developer. The reasoning is that there is something that was not generally known or included in its competitors products. I really do agree with this statement.

I have used this system of mixing C41 developer since mid 1990 with great and perfect success, literally thousands of rolls.

I am not into scanning film, I develop film to make prints from, I have the ability to scan prints and those are what is in my gallery.

If I was into colour film shooting in a business sense, intending to scan, I would put my money and sweat on C41. Greater colour correction possibilities, especially under fleuro or mixed lighting, coupled with a slightly more flexible exposing regime pretty much make C41 a winner over E6, the way I see it.

If you have the desire to mix your own chemicals then I heartily suggest you do so.

If you do decide to develop C41 then you really only need to ensure that your first bath time and temperature, are quite critically correct. It is very easy to do this, especially if you live in a warmish climate, which I know you do.

For about 15 years, I have been using a stop bath after the first and critical developer bath. This ensures that there is no more development possible and you then have breathing space, from there I bleach, wash, fix, wash and finally the stabiliser bath.

This wash or stop bath between the developer and bleach baths was first suggested to me in:- "Photographic Processes, The Chemistry of Photography Vol. II. This is another Preston Publication from the Darkroom and Creative Camera Techniques stable.

One of the more interesting things in this publication was Developing Color Prints in Room Light, by Patrick Dignan. I did this and it is a great party trick to be able to develop a colour print in front of other people in a lounge room.

Another neat trick is to develop a colour print so that it is a B&W print first, then by dipping half the finished print into colour paper developer, you end up with a print which is half B&W and half colour. If you look in my APUG gallery, you will see one of the prints that I did this to.

This is actually a better party trick to perform in your lounge room, providing you have guests to show off to that is!

For my first 5 years of colour developing and printing I didn't have a darkroom, I used the built in wardrobe at one end of the single room I lived in as my darkroom. As you are only anticipating developing film, it will be really easy to do what you wish.

Mick.
 

David Nardi

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I agree with Mick. You do not need a pre-wet or pre-soak to develop E-6 or C-41 films. I have been developing E-6 using Kodak's 5 liter kit in a Jobo ATL-1000. The unit does not use a pre-wet. Kodak recommends against it as it could change the colour and/or effective speed of the films.

You can certainly develop your films using hand-inversion techniques but if you want to simplify your processing life I would strongly recommend a Jobo processor. These can be found on Ebay for good prices. Most people use the semi-automatic processors like the CPA-2, CPP-2 and CPE-2 or you can go fully automatic with the ATL-1000/1500 that I use. Turn it on, walk away, and come back when its done. These processors also keep my hands dry from chemicals since I only need pour them in the processor.

It is important that your temperature remain constant at 38C/100F. Check out Kodak's technical publications on E-6 and C-41. These will tell you what you need to know using different processing methods.

For E-6: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...y/filmE6main.jhtml?id=0.2.22.14.18.14.3&lc=en

For C-41: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof.../filmC41main.jhtml?id=0.2.22.14.18.14.5&lc=en

You can also check my thread here for the money saving benefits of developing your own films.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

By the way, if you have some money then the "simplest, most effective way" is to get yourself a Jobo processor, preferably the automatic one (ATL-1000/1500). I know buying a processor from a used source opens the door to possible used problems, but if you do a little homework you can pick one up in working condition that will save you many headaches. I got mine from a working darkroom in China over a year ago and I have put loads of film through it. It's flawless every time. I use my processor in the laundry room by placing it on the dryer and using the sink to expend chemicals and for water rinses. My bleach and fix are saved for silver recovery methods.

Good luck,

David

David S. Nardi Photography
www.davidnardi.com
 
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Mick Fagan

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One thing I forgot to mention is that the Jobo processors are about the best thing since sliced bread for developing film.

I myself have the CPE2 with the lift, perfect.

David, I read your link to the colour film processing, quite interesting, especialy the current processing costs. I have developed virtually all of my own films of any kind for the last 18 years, I'm also using chemicals that I purchased 17 years ago still, with some years to go before I run out.

I couldn't afford to pay someone to develop my film, wouldn't let them anyway as I'm a bit of a control freak regarding film.

Mick.
 
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snegron

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Thanks for all the feedback! I will be looking into the Jobo processing system as well. My biggest setback is lack of available space at my house. I am limited to a bathroom and not a very big one at that) for developing. Unfortunately I have no space for an enlarger, so Iwill be limited to scanning my film.
 

Ed Sukach

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Well ... at the risk of being a pariah - as usual...

There ARE those among us who are not users of Kodak chemistry ... see sundry other references to the selection of film, materials, cameras ...
A matter of taste, superstition, ... uh ... shamanist tea-leaf reading ... whatever.

I have used a variety of others - Tetenal, Photocolor, JOBO - Russel, Agfa ... and I've been able to obtain what I consider to be GOOD - damn good!! results from all of them (BTW - I looked up the definintion of "extremely critical, picky to a fault" in my Encyclopedia - and found a picture of --- ME!).

I do NOT think temperature control is anywhere near as critical as some would have us believe. More than once, I have made the mistake of processing C-41 and E-6 at RA-4 printing temperature; that is, at 35 degrees C (95 F) instead of the prescribed 38C/ 100F. To tell the truth, there was nothing that I would consider to be a significant difference, even after comparing film from the same session, same lighting, same chemistry, same TIME - the only difference being CORRECTED temperature. If anything, there was some slight change in density.

I mentioned the idea of "critical temperature control" to a friend of mine - a retired Photo Lab Manager for a LARGE corporation involved in NASA, and in particular High-Speed photography, and he agreed - the requirement of +/- 1/4 degree F was widely regarded as a fantasy ... even with the best equipment - not within the reach of us mortals - it just was NOT going to happen. The *best* they could hope for - considering the homogenity of the processing solutions, measuring equipment tolerances, and a whole bunch of other factors - was to determine temperature within +/- 1/2 degree F; CONTROLLING it was even more difficult. Yet, even with all this, they produced, arguably, the best, most accurate color photography around... and yes, they used Kodak Chemistry - nearly exclusively.

I would not say that process control within +/- 1/4 Degree F is impossible - but (start Justin Wlison accent) I will GUARANTEE it is going to be difficult, even with the most sophisticated control systems - far more sophisticated than those of my JOBO CPP-2.

End line - So give it a try. I do color regularly - and I don't see it any more difficult than black and white.
 
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Ole

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I use JOBO/Tetenal 3-bath E6, and it works just great. It's not difficult at all, and the stock chemicals have a l-o-n-g life even after you've opened the bottles.
 

Richard Lupu

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Thanks for all the feedback! I will be looking into the Jobo processing system as well. My biggest setback is lack of available space at my house. I am limited to a bathroom and not a very big one at that) for developing. Unfortunately I have no space for an enlarger, so Iwill be limited to scanning my film.

I have been doing all my own C41 for a while now. I use a daylight tank and big wash tub in the bathroom with excellent results. The Jobo is nice and I keep telling myself that life would be easier with one but in the end I still can't fork out the $$$ for a used one. :wink: Temp control is key but it is not difficult once you get your workflow down. I would recommend good ventilation in a bathroom as the bleach and fix can be quite fragrant.

I have not done E6 yet but I plan on starting soon. I use Kodak C41 chemicals even though I can no longer find them locally but have to have them shipped in from Adorama ($30USD Hazmat shipping :sad: ). I am hoping to find some like minded folks locally (Minnesota) as a local supplier will order the 1 gal chemicals in qtys of 12 (Case) so if I find two or three others it might work out.

Richard
 

tim_walls

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E6 for beginners 'how to' guide...

Hi,

Just noticed this thread, and thought I'd mention that I just wrote a short how to DIY develop E6 guide for the benefit of a group on Flickr.

I'd welcome any feedback from people here, or better still be delighted if someone found it useful.

Cheers,
Tim. (PS, I'm sort of new here, having lurked a while, so hi :smile:.)
 

markkubis

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Hey that's a great guide for newbies. One thing that I didn't see mentioned was about squeegeing the film when you hang it up to dry. I tried using de-ionised water without wiping my films and I still got drying marks. I don't have a film dryer. So I use a high quality Jobo film wiper and before wiping the film I clean and dampen the rubber blades. I have never scratched the film yet. However I did scratch my films a number of times when I used a previous film wiper (Jessops own brand) because they are made from a harder rubber. If anybody has any ideas as to how to avoid water drying marks without the need to wipe the film I'd like to know.

Mark
 

Nick Zentena

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Are you using a wetting agent in the final wash? I get no drying marks using wetting agent [photo-flo] in distilled water.
 

tim_walls

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Squeegeeing

I've never squeegee'd any film, either black and white or colour - I'd be far too worried about damaging the emulsion. For B&W I do a final rinse with a few drops of Ilfotol in the water, for E6 there's a wetting agent in the Tetenal stabilizer bath so I've not needed to.
 

GDI

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I'm no expert and have only done a few rolls of E6 so far, but I would recommend you look into a good used Phototherm unit as well as the Jobos.

It is fully automated and needs no tempering bath - load your film and push a couple of buttons and wait for it to notify you of completion. I have just changed from a 4 step to 7 step chip (less flexibility in the Phototherm from that perspective) and will do my first rolls today for testing.

Prices, for older models, seem to be comparable - less really - than the CPP-2 units. I had both and sold the Jobo after reviewing the procedures for both, and each units footprint.

Good luck
 

kraker

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Hi,

Just noticed this thread, and thought I'd mention that I just wrote a short how to DIY develop E6 guide for the benefit of a group on Flickr.

I'd welcome any feedback from people here, or better still be delighted if someone found it useful.

Cheers,
Tim. (PS, I'm sort of new here, having lurked a while, so hi :smile:.)

I've never done anything else than B&W (all C41 and E6 goes to the lab), but after reading this guide I might consider trying E6 :smile: Thanks! I found it a very interesting read.
 

markkubis

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Are you using a wetting agent in the final wash? I get no drying marks using wetting agent [photo-flo] in distilled water.

Yes, tried wetting agent in de-ionised water. Still get drying marks. Also tried mixture of isopropyl alcohol and di-ionised water with wetting agent, still drying marks. But have not tried distilled water. Maybe that will work, but never scratched film yet with Jobo wiper.

Mark
 

Photo Engineer

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You should never ever ever use a plain wetting agent in water as the final step of a C41 or E6 process. The final step should be either the stabilzer or final rinse which contains proprietary ingredients plus a wetting agent to insure optimum quality (stability) of the image.

PE
 

Randy Stewart

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Okay, I'll go against the prior recommendations in several respects.

If you are just starting out doing your own color filmprocessing, the last thing you need to do is plungehundreds of dollars into a Jobo processor. Even worse would be to buy a used Jobo processer, because they are fairly breakable/wearable things, and the use ones tend to have little problems which cost a fortune to have fixed, if they are fixable.

My suggestions: To start, do C-41, not E-6. It's quick and eay to do well. You can use the same manual processing tank and related equipment you probably use now for B&W. Get an accurate thermometer. A small ice chest or beer cooler will hold a warm water bath to keep chemicals at a hot working temperature. If you can find one in the right temperature range, a fish tank heater will automate the warming bath process. If you want to go higher tech at low cost, look on ebay for (1) a Unicolor drum roller and (2) a Unicolor filmdrum with reels to fit your needs. the fuction of the roller is to agitate automatically; the Filmdrum is insolated - you pre-warm it with hot water and it holds your process temperature accurately for either C-41 or the longer E-6 process. I have used one for 6 step E-6 since 1978. Jobo units are too big for temporary bathroom use, are not too durable, and grossly overprice for what you get. If you want to spend $600 -1,000 on a film processor, there are several non-Jobo units worth a look going cheap in these days of falling film use.

Bottom line: Approched with some care to time and temp, color film processing isn't much different than B&W. Most scanners can do a good job of pulling an inmage out of color negative. Color negative film is easier to shoot than slide film. the only advantage of slide film is that you can judge your prints by direct reference to the original slide, which can be helpful when you are just starting out doing color.
 

ben-s

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I was in a similar position to Snegron, but I had done E6 by hand in a water bath.
It sort of worked, but was too unpredictable to use on anything important.
Fast forward 6 months, and I was asked for some advice on a bag full of old exposed C41 film.
Rather than risk sending the stuff to a minilab (or bear the expense of sending to a pro lab), I said I'd have a go myself.

I bought a Jobo CPE-2 on e*bay, and got the Tetenal colortec rapid 5 litre kit.
It turns out to be little harder than black and white.
The kit I have uses Blix rather than seperate bleach and fix, but my results so far have been good.

I think my E6 chemistry has expired, as I tried it in the jobo yesterday and got really mangled results.
I'm going to try it again with another film, just to make sure, but I'm fairly convinced it's duff.

I'd heartily recommend the Jobo CPE-2. I think a lift accessory would be very nice as well, although it's not difficult to pull the tank off by hand to empty it.

So far, I have found:
C41 - easy. Almost as easy as b&w.
E6 - Harder. Not massively difficult, but harder than C41. My view on E6 is probably distorted, as my chemistry was duff by the time I got the Jobo. Thus I don't have a direct comparison.
 

entmas

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Hello:
I am looking for a good reference and recipes for mixing c-41 chemicals from scratch. I have just purchased a used SK-8 film processor and had it upgraded to SSK-8, which allows me to program each individual step including washes and the rotation/agitation speeds. Now, I just learned that using chemicals from Kodak is not only uneconomical it is wasteful at the rate of my film shooting. I expect that I will be developing no more than 4 rolls per month in one shot. The 4-roll drum will consume of about 0.5 liters each of developer, bleach, fix, and stabilizer. Even though the unit can do the replenishment automatically, I will discard the solutions after each use. In addition, due to the space constraint, I prefer to store powders and mix them as the need arises.

So, I am looking for a cookbook and methodology reference. Is there such a thing?

Michael
 

Photo Engineer

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There are several URLs posted here and on PN with chemical formulas. The E6 formulas that I have seen are further from the correct ones than the C41 and RA formulas, and so work a bit differently, but they are serviceable.

PE
 

Photo Engineer

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Nick;

This is not the best source. There is another one posted here somewhere. I suggest you refer to it instead.

PE
 
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I borrowed an Jobo ATL 1000 for E6 for a year. I processed everything from 35mm to 4x5. It was the easiest way to process film. Automatic in some ways but I had to carefully reclame the pre-bleach, Bleach and fix. I got two uses out out of the fix and Pre-bleach and replinished the bleach, that cut way down on chemical costs and environmental damage. The used fix was sent to a silver-recovery unit. Hope this helps you out.
 
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