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DVD of making and coating

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John;

Thanks, but my schedule is full enough and I figure that most everyone on LFF are members here.

PE
 
Lots of people lurk on any forum, but they still buy books and do things. I would regard the number of posts in the thread as an indicator of anything.
 
jgjbowen said:
PE,
I doubt the 35mm or color crowd have any interest in this.
Click to expand...

Some of us do. I will likely start with MF, but I do eventually want to move into 35mm. The biggest problem, aside from making the emulsion itself, appears to be perfing the film, but I've got a few ideas on that already. So many projects, so little time. :wink:

What I'd really like to do is make some films in formats that aren't available anymore.
 
I doubt the 35mm or color crowd have any interest in this.

We may all need to have an interest in this some day if we want to use any kind of film at all. I will buy a copy also.
 
I apologize if I came across as condescending, but for the life of me, I can't imagine spending the time and energy necessary to coat my own 35mm film. My hats off to those of you willing to undertake that challenge. I pray I'll never have to coat my own 8x10 or 7x17 film, but the thought of an "Azo Like" paper is intriguing and the longer it takes Michael Smith to bring Lodima to market, the more likely I am to try to coat my own 8x20 so I can print my ULF negatives.
 
Photo Engineer said:
It was grueling and after working all day (we still have about 2 more hours today), the file is so big I have to create a DVD of just 20 minutes of HDTV. It probably will require 3 DVDs for the information in 3 sections. One is introduction to coating, another is simple Azo type emulsion making and the third is film making and materials testing. But we are making progress.

PE
Click to expand...

I've been reading this thread with great interest. Looking forward to the DVDs...

CH
 
John, I'm sure you meant no offense, and none was taken. You're right though, at the moment there is still a wide selection of 35mm film available with quality, quantity, and consistency that far exceeds that of which I would be capable of in my basement. But, I also like film, and I'm young enough that I might still be alive when commercial 35mm film is no longer produced. So by learning now, I'm hedging my bets for the future. Should that day come, I might be one of those people selling film out of my basement. (or at least selling 35mm stock, I had a few ideas on automating my perfing machine. If I can refine my scribbles into something readable, I might post them here.)

Never hurts to have the option.
 
QUOTE
"I had a few ideas on automating my perfing machine. If I can refine my scribbles into something readable, I might post them here.)
Never hurts to have the option."[/QUOTE]

Regarding the perf machine. Did you know that several companies sell already perforated 35mm film base. Polyester or Tri-acetate. This is used as motion picture film leader. It can be purchased in very long lengths.

This company appears to have clear leader at $20/1000ft
http://www.moviola.com/J&R045TradCatalog2003.pdf

Here are some others:
http://www.dancan.dk/Orwo 2006 - May.pdf
http://www.modernsoundpictures.com/NEUMADE-FilmLeader-2002.html

On the subject of perforators there are some patents for the excellent Bell and Howell perforators available via the Google patents web site.


Emulsion.
 
Coating 35mm film especially with perfs, is a very very difficult job. You would have to buy wider film, coat it and then slit it and perf it.

PE
 
Hi PE!

I am also very interested in your DVD and book - no, I'm not only interested in it, I absolutely need it ;-)
As i am currently studying dental medicine in Germany, it's not very likely to have the chance to come to NYC and take part in one of your workshops...

Best regards,

Peter
 
I would love to have Photo Engineer's book and DVD in my personal colection.
Best wishes PE!
 
Photo Engineer said:
Coating 35mm film especially with perfs, is a very very difficult job. You would have to buy wider film, coat it and then slit it and perf it.

PE
Click to expand...
This is what I am planning to do. I am also planning on starting the way they did way back in the day. Glass table, sheet of film, cut into strips after coating. That automatic coating machine you built is amazing PE, but I'm starting with baby steps first. (I was thinking a strip cut from graphic arts film, ~6x24". That should be long enough for ~14-16 exposures, enough for testing anyway)
 
projectbluebird said:
This is what I am planning to do. I am also planning on starting the way they did way back in the day. Glass table, sheet of film, cut into strips after coating. That automatic coating machine you built is amazing PE, but I'm starting with baby steps first. (I was thinking a strip cut from graphic arts film, ~6x24". That should be long enough for ~14-16 exposures, enough for testing anyway)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I built no automatic coating machine. That was someone else who deserves the credit. My work has been all done with hand coatings.

PE
 
Well, we thought it would take 3 days. Here we are in day 4 editing and going to day 5!

This is a real job.

We will have about 60 - 90 minutes running time on the DVD if things go the way they are now. It will involve 4 parts, Setup and practice, Making an Azo type emulsion, Making an ISO 40 Ortho emulsion, Testing and Photo Engineering. With compression this should just fit on a DVD in HDTV format. We quit abruptly when the editor crashed for the 2nd time taking all new work with it. Since we have backups, the loss was about 10 minutes of action, but still a pain.

We hope to burn the final DVD tomorrow. We will finish the last few scenes, and then do the menu.

PE
 
Photo Engineer said:
Well, we thought it would take 3 days. Here we are in day 4 editing and going to day 5!

This is a real job.

We will have about 60 - 90 minutes running time on the DVD if things go the way they are now. It will involve 4 parts, Setup and practice, Making an Azo type emulsion, Making an ISO 40 Ortho emulsion, Testing and Photo Engineering. With compression this should just fit on a DVD in HDTV format. We quit abruptly when the editor crashed for the 2nd time taking all new work with it. Since we have backups, the loss was about 10 minutes of action, but still a pain.

We hope to burn the final DVD tomorrow. We will finish the last few scenes, and then do the menu.

PE
Click to expand...

Hi Ron,
I know what your going through.

We have a saying... "TV production is like sausage... you're just better off not knowing how it's made."
 
projectbluebird said:
This is what I am planning to do. I am also planning on starting the way they did way back in the day. Glass table, sheet of film, cut into strips after coating. That automatic coating machine you built is amazing PE, but I'm starting with baby steps first. (I was thinking a strip cut from graphic arts film, ~6x24". That should be long enough for ~14-16 exposures, enough for testing anyway)
Click to expand...

Projectbluebird
An APUGer has coated his own 16mm movie film using already perforated film, see this post:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
OR
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I guess that emulsion could be coated onto the "picture" area of already perforated 35mm film only....leaving the area around the sprocket holes uncoated. Alternatively the emulsion mess could be removed from around the sprockets after coating. Both methods have problems.

Regarding perforators:

The following company sells film perforators:
http://buko-gmbh.de/
Click on the film perforating tools page to see some interesting tools.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Emulsion,
 
Those are some very impressive tools, but far beyond my means. My perfing machine will be much less elegant, but easier to make, considering that my resources at the moment run to a stack of books on machining from the 20's-40's. Incidentally, I seem to have arrived independently at the Bell & Howell perf shape, the Kodak Standard being more difficult to manage.

Some (rough) specs for my machine:
hand-powered film feed (think: crank, punch, repeat.)
pneumatic punch ~8-12 perf pairs per go. testing will be needed.

I've got some basic designs for components, priced the pneumatic bits, and am (slowly) accumulating funds. First up, a hobby lathe, followed by a small compressor.

As of now, funding is the biggest stalling point, I'll post results once I start construction. I figure I'll start testing with plain graphic arts film, and then cut down a few rolls of 120. Then I'll be able to tackle making my own emulsions.
 
You have to remember that 35mm film was not possible until emulsions were fast enough with fine enough grain for projection printing. Most everything you can do will probably only be suitable for MF or LF use. A big problem will be dust and dirt during making and coating.

In any event, home made 35mm and smaller coatings will probably be somewhat unsatisfactory for a while until better making equipment is available and better formulas are devised.

PE
 
jgjbowen said:
I doubt the 35mm or color crowd have any interest in this.
Click to expand...
What if I copied/enlarged my 35mm neg to another neg any size up to 8x10 and then contact printed that onto the AZO ? Would it stand a chance of looking at least as good as a print made from the 35mm neg directly to non-AZO 8x10 ?

Peter
 
Peter

I just made a post in the Contact Forum next door which answers your questions. If you compare the 2 prints made on the same paper; That will give you a better comparison than 2 different papers.
 
Hello PhotoEngineer,

are there some good news concerning your DVD/book project?
I am already looking forward to buy it when it's ready :D

Best regards,

Peter
 
filmfabrik said:
Hello PhotoEngineer,

are there some good news concerning your DVD/book project?
I am already looking forward to buy it when it's ready :D

Best regards,

Peter
Click to expand...

The DVD is done and burned to disk. It has been tested on several computers and players with good results.

The book is at 120 pages and is being re-written in version 3 with keys to the DVD and extra photos for clarity. It is also being reorganized.

PE
 
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