Durst Nega138 alternative?

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Flyfsher4reds

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So I’ve been on the search for a nega138 and keep coming up empty or find it too late. I was gifted a durst laborator s-45 last July and then moved a few months after into a new home. I’m finally at a point (thanks to quarantine) where I’m getting my darkroom set up again and really want to put this enlarger to use. Along with the enlarger I was given a makeshift/aftermarket negative carrier that works... ok, but I want to get the right equipment for this enlarger. Has anyone ever had this carrier fabricated themselves, like machined, or found an alternative that doesn’t include just cutting card stock? I’ve had the card stock thing suggested, I’ve had people suggest that I buy and entire enlarger system just for the negative carrier, and so forth. You know, internet advice. I’d like something that’s pretty snug and is as close to the nega138 as possible. Thanks!
 

koraks

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I have a 138 with the old version of the original 5x7" carrier, the one with AN glass in it. I never liked it much. Yes, the focus/calibration aid in the margin is nice, but I don't find it necessarily essential, although it does help aligning the baseboard to the center of the optical axis. However, that can be done in other ways as well.

I just don't like glass carriers I suppose, and the drawback with the negative carrier in this enlarger (and many like it), is that if you want to use several film formats, you'll have to search a lot in the second hand market and have to have a good dose of luck in finding the parts you're looking for. More often than not, they're IMO ridiculously expensive and often in a poor state or incomplete. This is why I resorted to DIYing a set of holders/masks myself. Instead of carboard (which works, but is a little flimsy) I just used some MDF that I had lying around for other purposes. As long as it doesn't get wet, it's pretty dimensionally stable and easy to work with (the dust sucks though when you work it).

What I did was make a base holder that slides into the enlarger with some guides glued to it so that it always sits in exactly the same place. The fit is actually better this way than I get with the original holder, which has a a few mm of play. This base holder has an aperture cut into it, centered around the optical center, that is a bit larger than the largest negative format I want to use (4x5" in my case). I then made inserts for the different negative formats I use, e.g. one for 4x5", one for medium format (still working on 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x12 variants) and one for 35mm. These inserts are again made out of MDF, with a mask that is appropriate for the format. I made the masks out of matte board or used standard Durst masks if I had them for the format. The negatives are held down with strips of steel that click onto magnets that I glued into the MDF holder, so that the negative is effectively clamped down and held in place by the margins. It's a very basic variant of the tension system that the more fancy Durst holders use for e.g. 35mm, but my contraption doesn't tension the film (I find it's not necessary, but technically it's a better solution as long as it doesn't damage the negatives, like a Beseler 4x5" holder I was gifted and that horribly scratches the negative margins...) Hence, all my holders/inserts are glassless, so less problems with dust and getting AN glass. They're also much easier and quicker to use than the original holder I had.
 
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Flyfsher4reds

Flyfsher4reds

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Thank you for the experiences and details of your alternative. I was actually thinking of going that route but with actual hardwood of sorts (I’m in Houston and it’s pretty humid here!) and making a carrier (but with glass) that fits snuggly in the enlarger. Good to know that glass isn’t necessary. If I do end up going that route, if it’s ok I may contact you for further minute details as what you provided seems pretty clear as is. Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated.
 

koraks

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Sure, feel free to drop me a message. Make sure to spend some thought on the choice of material; natural wood may not be dimensionally stable, depending on how it's implemented.

Opinions vary on glass vs glassless. Glass is the most straightforward way to get very good film flatness especially with negative sizes larger than 35mm. But for me personally, the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

If you make really large prints and require the utmost perfection in terms of sharpness, glass or a really well thought through tensioning system can be a requirement. YMMV.
 

athbr

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Sure, feel free to drop me a message. Make sure to spend some thought on the choice of material; natural wood may not be dimensionally stable, depending on how it's implemented.

Opinions vary on glass vs glassless. Glass is the most straightforward way to get very good film flatness especially with negative sizes larger than 35mm. But for me personally, the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

If you make really large prints and require the utmost perfection in terms of sharpness, glass or a really well thought through tensioning system can be a requirement. YMMV.

Never heard of tensioning carriers. Can't find anything with a cursory look on google.

Any idea how they work? Any chance something like that could be DIYed?
 

Dirb9

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Never heard of tensioning carriers. Can't find anything with a cursory look on google.

Any idea how they work? Any chance something like that could be DIYed?
I'm assuming koraks is discussing something like the Beseler Negaflat, which grips the edges of the film and pulls to eliminate sag. There's also custom ones like seen on glennview: http://www.glennview.com/dkrm2.htm .Advantage of that method is four less surfaces to keep clean although maintaining proper registration may be more difficult.
 

koraks

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Exactly, carriers like the Beseler Negaflat. I have one of those and while it's effective, it leaves pretty horrible scratches on the edges of my negatives, so I don't use it. Durst has something similar, at least for 35mm but probably also larger formats, and the one a friend uses did not scratch my negatives.

I suppose anything can be DIY-ed, and while I did give it some thought, I consider myself insufficiently mechanically literate to give it a go :wink:
 
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Flyfsher4reds

Flyfsher4reds

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Well I lucked out and found one. It’s in pristine condition with glass and looks hardly used. Looks like I will try and use my woodworking skill on building a panoramic camera instead. Thank you everyone for your replies and suggestions. Hope the info can help someone else in the predicament I was in.
 

138S

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So I’ve been on the search for a nega138 and keep coming up empty or find it too late. I was gifted a durst laborator s-45 last July and then moved a few months after into a new home. I’m finally at a point (thanks to quarantine) where I’m getting my darkroom set up again and really want to put this enlarger to use. Along with the enlarger I was given a makeshift/aftermarket negative carrier that works... ok, but I want to get the right equipment for this enlarger. Has anyone ever had this carrier fabricated themselves, like machined, or found an alternative that doesn’t include just cutting card stock? I’ve had the card stock thing suggested, I’ve had people suggest that I buy and entire enlarger system just for the negative carrier, and so forth. You know, internet advice. I’d like something that’s pretty snug and is as close to the nega138 as possible. Thanks!

If you like glass holders (my case) don't search for a substitute, just wait until you have an opportunity.

With the Nega 138 I nail alignment easily. It also has an adjustable crosshairs target in the top of the frame that is projected when the holder is inserted the half (hard point), you focus the target and later you insert it totally. That target can be adjusted to match the film plane.

To me it's the perfection. Of course if not wanting a "glass holder" you should get another thing.
 

DREW WILEY

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There is a new source for Anti-Newton carrier glass if anyone needs it : Scan Tech in Los Angeles.
 

danpearl

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Jul 20, 2006
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I have a 138 with the old version of the original 5x7" carrier, the one with AN glass in it. I never liked it much. Yes, the focus/calibration aid in the margin is nice, but I don't find it necessarily essential, although it does help aligning the baseboard to the center of the optical axis. However, that can be done in other ways as well.

I just don't like glass carriers I suppose, and the drawback with the negative carrier in this enlarger (and many like it), is that if you want to use several film formats, you'll have to search a lot in the second hand market and have to have a good dose of luck in finding the parts you're looking for. More often than not, they're IMO ridiculously expensive and often in a poor state or incomplete. This is why I resorted to DIYing a set of holders/masks myself. Instead of carboard (which works, but is a little flimsy) I just used some MDF that I had lying around for other purposes. As long as it doesn't get wet, it's pretty dimensionally stable and easy to work with (the dust sucks though when you work it).

What I did was make a base holder that slides into the enlarger with some guides glued to it so that it always sits in exactly the same place. The fit is actually better this way than I get with the original holder, which has a a few mm of play. This base holder has an aperture cut into it, centered around the optical center, that is a bit larger than the largest negative format I want to use (4x5" in my case). I then made inserts for the different negative formats I use, e.g. one for 4x5", one for medium format (still working on 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x12 variants) and one for 35mm. These inserts are again made out of MDF, with a mask that is appropriate for the format. I made the masks out of matte board or used standard Durst masks if I had them for the format. The negatives are held down with strips of steel that click onto magnets that I glued into the MDF holder, so that the negative is effectively clamped down and held in place by the margins. It's a very basic variant of the tension system that the more fancy Durst holders use for e.g. 35mm, but my contraption doesn't tension the film (I find it's not necessary, but technically it's a better solution as long as it doesn't damage the negatives, like a Beseler 4x5" holder I was gifted and that horribly scratches the negative margins...) Hence, all my holders/inserts are glassless, so less problems with dust and getting AN glass. They're also much easier and quicker to use than the original holder I had.
Hi Koraks,
I'm about to pick up a S-45 that has no neg carrier. Reading here it seems the Nega 138 will work for the S-45 so that is something but even they are as rare as ....
I like your idea of making one from MDF and wonder if you could perhaps put up some photographs to flesh out your description of how you've gone about it.
I have some DeVere and some Beseler masks hanging around so I'm sure could come up with something. Might be a good excuse to buy a router!
Many thanks in advance!
 
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