Durst laborator 138 advice

wildtypitch · Jul 28, 2008

Durst laborator 138 advice

I've just been given a durst 138 enlarger with a cls 301 head. It was covered in Pigeon s**t but has cleaned up very very nicely. It looks like its actually an 8x10 enlarger with a cls 301 head. But

1. It's missing the light mixing boxes
2. The transformer is shot.
3. There is no fan

I want to use this for 4x5 B&W multigrade, can anyone advise whether i should get the transformer repaired and what to do about the light mixing boxes (can I make some from polystyrene?). Can standard fan be used instead of the original durst and if so should it suck or blow. Any advice would be great as I'm itching to get this beauty pumping light.

galyons · Jul 28, 2008

Hi,
Are you sure it is a 138? Both the 138 and the 184 came with the CLS301 head. The mixing boxes and mixing box housing are differently shaped, obviously! Here is the cover to the manual showing both.

Depending on what is not working in the transformer, it may be easier to get a modern switching power supply or rewire the mains lead and run ELH, (120v 300W), or ENH (120v 250W) bulbs.

Where are you? Having your location in your profile helps, perhaps, to get local support!

Cheers,
Geary

wildtypitch · Jul 28, 2008

Hi, Yep mine is the one on the right
I downloaded a copy of this manual but it is not very detailed at all. Are there other more detailed manuals around? Will a modern transformer accept the wierd serial plug from the head?
What about that wiring, whats ENH and ELH (direct wiring without a regulator/transformer, is there any need for one when using for multigrade B&W)
I'm in london

Thanks,
Nathaniel

galyons · Jul 28, 2008

Yes, that would be the 138!

Firstly, I am not familiar with UK electricity mains. But, if you are somewhat knowledgeable about things electrical and handy, you can either sort out the transformer issue, (may just be a faulty relay), or the get a modern power supply.

The new power supplies are manually or automatically switchable for the different mains feeds, (110/120V or 220/240V). The power supplies are "plug format agnostic", They require that you provide proper AC in and DC out leads and matching plugs.

I'll "bow out" of discussing rewiring the mains lead for line voltage. I am not familiar with QH lamps that would run directly on 220v 50 cycles mains.

Surely some of your UK mates, resident on APUG, can provide more informed input!!

I do not know of a better manual!

Cheers,
Geary

wildtypitch said:
Hi, Yep mine is the one on the right
I downloaded a copy of this manual but it is not very detailed at all. Are there other more detailed manuals around? Will a modern transformer accept the wierd serial plug from the head?
What about that wiring, whats ENH and ELH (direct wiring without a regulator/transformer, is there any need for one when using for multigrade B&W)
I'm in london

Thanks,
Nathaniel

ic-racer · Jul 28, 2008

The cheapest, simplest solution would be to put a second-hand cold light on it and use filters for MG paper.

You can also look around for a power supply and light mixing boxes, you might get lucky.

As suggested, the power supply might be repairable.

jp80874 · Jul 28, 2008

ic-racer said:
The cheapest, simplest solution would be to put a second-hand cold light on it and use filters for MG paper.

Welcome to APUG. If you want to do the above you can see two pictures of an example in my gallery, but you will have to be a subscriber to see more than the thumb nails.

Double click on my id jp80874 and then double click on view profile. Just one of the many reasons to be a subscriber. There are two filer holders hung below the lens that use 6 inch filters cut to about 5 inches. I have used it this way at least two years with happy results.

John Powers

wildtypitch · Jul 29, 2008

Would like to get the cls301 working By brother is an electrician so i'll get him on the job. But what about the light mixing chamber. Does anyone have one, which they can describe to me. I've been told that they are easy to make/bodge with polystyrene, I just need to know the general layout design of the lightbox (durst Lacap 138) The only place i've seen them for sale is glenview and he wants $300 for one!

jp80874 · Jul 29, 2008

If you search here and at the Large Format Forum http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/index.php
You will find many good reasons, including my own, not to go with glenview.

John Powers

ic-racer · Jul 29, 2008

wildtypitch said:
Would like to get the cls301 working By brother is an electrician so i'll get him on the job. But what about the light mixing chamber. Does anyone have one, which they can describe to me. I've been told that they are easy to make/bodge with polystyrene, I just need to know the general layout design of the lightbox (durst Lacap 138) The only place i've seen them for sale is glenview and he wants $300 for one!

I fixed the power supply on my Durst 1840L. Try to get ahold of the workshop manual for your item (Durst.it or Durst USA). Glad to help if needed.

frotog · Jul 30, 2008

You'll have a very hard time manufacturing your own mixing box for the cls 301. The thought of a diy polystyrene mixing box for this head is down right frightening if not impossible. Once you think you've succeeded try testing how even your source is by making an enlargement of just the diffuser with no negative in the carrier. You'll then realize you set out on a fool's errand. Your best off retro fitting either an omega e dichroic head or a maron head (photographic systems in Albq. nm had one of these converted for a durst 138) as you will never find spare parts for the cls 301. Both these heads are single bulb heads and thus significantly more even than the two bulb cls 301. BTW, avoid J Jensen from Durst pro usa at all costs. You'd be far better off dealing with Mr. Glenn Evans.

wildtypitch · Jul 30, 2008

In fact every mixing box i've looked at in the past is exactly that a polystyrene square box. Just asking someone who has one what its like inside, I have a 5x7 mixing box but its not for my cls 301 head so won't work. It's a box with a 45 degree triangle at the top which reflects down to a diffusion screen which I presume does a large amount of the fine distribution. I'm looking for a cheap solution and have the time to mess around and try so am not worried about perfectly even illumination, I'll worry about that when I can afford to give glenview a call. I'm determined not to scrap this head, the power unit is being repaired right now. I've never seem a head for sale in England so they are not that easy to replace.

galyons · Jul 30, 2008

frotog said:
You'll have a very hard time manufacturing your own mixing box for the cls 301. The thought of a diy polystyrene mixing box for this head is down right frightening if not impossible. Once you think you've succeeded try testing how even your source is by making an enlargement of just the diffuser with no negative in the carrier. You'll then realize you set out on a fool's errand. Your best off retro fitting either an omega e dichroic head or a maron head (photographic systems in Albq. nm had one of these converted for a durst 138) as you will never find spare parts for the cls 301. Both these heads are single bulb heads and thus significantly more even than the two bulb cls 301. BTW, avoid J Jensen from Durst pro usa at all costs. You'd be far better off dealing with Mr. Glenn Evans.

What are you basing this opinion on? What is it that frightens you so?

Mixing boxes are pretty simple devices with easily definable physical constraints. He has the head. The head determines the dimensions of height, width and depth. The 301 light head has a bottom diffusion plate that is easily measurable. The lights in the head are placed horizontally and reflected from the head into the mixing box via mirrored reflectors. The mixing box is simply a reflecting chamber with a diffusion plate at the bottom. Nothing more.

I have a CLS 301, (for 184). The mixing box lining is not polystyrene, The lining is not poly...anything. It is polished metal. It would be fairly simple to replicate the mixing box.

Sorry, I "shutter" at the thought of the Omega head on the Durst. I'll admit simple snobbery, but it would be like putting a Ford V6 into a Maserati. :rolleyes:
One can do it, but....

Cheers,
Geary

galyons · Jul 30, 2008

wildtypitch said:
In fact every mixing box i've looked at in the past is exactly that a polystyrene square box. Just asking someone who has one what its like inside, I have a 5x7 mixing box but its not for my cls 301 head so won't work. It's a box with a 45 degree triangle at the top which reflects down to a diffusion screen which I presume does a large amount of the fine distribution. I'm looking for a cheap solution and have the time to mess around and try so am not worried about perfectly even illumination, I'll worry about that when I can afford to give glenview a call. I'm determined not to scrap this head, the power unit is being repaired right now. I've never seem a head for sale in England so they are not that easy to replace.

Wildtypitch,
That's the spirit. Give it a go!
I'll post measurements and pictures of the 5x7 mixing box that came with my CLS301.

Cheers,
Geary

frotog · Jul 30, 2008

galyons said:
What are you basing this opinion on? What is it that frightens you so?

I've based my opinion on using the cls to print 5x7 color negs of landscapes with even skys. My latibox had a slight (like really slight) dent on one of its sides that made the cls 301 more uneven than this head already is. I eventually replaced it with a NOS one I gleaned off ebay and while still uneven the head performed better than it had before. But then again I'm freaky when it comes to consistency in color and how even a light head is and some of my clients I print for are too. Most people aren't and you really shouldn't be either so go for it man - break out the duct tape, xacto, and carpenters square.

...but you should know that in my tests the omega head had better light distribution and more even color than the durst cls 301. This is why it is not uncommon to see 138's equipped with either Maron or Omega heads back in the day when labs still had and used these enlargers. Neither head can touch my cls 1000 but that's a whole other level of engineering and an unfair comparison.

galyons · Jul 30, 2008

frotog said:
I've based my opinion on using the cls to print 5x7 color negs of landscapes with even skys.

Absolutely no argument with the basis of your opinion regarding the CLS and commercial grade color reproduction!

Your response simply appears, to me, to be totally non sequitur to the OP's dilemma. The CLS 301 never had a good reputation as a color head. But, and a big but it is, the OP specifically stated his intended use "I want to use this for 4x5 B&W multigrade". Not for color. Not for 5x7. And...perhaps most importantly, I am assuming, not for clients.

Warning! Rant ON.

We are at a stage, in traditional analog photography, where creative solutions will prolong and expand the use of rapidly aging technology and equipment.
Please, before denigrate someones ideas, at least understand their use and give the factual reason for a non-supporting response. Unsupported, broad brush dismissals do no one in the community a positive service.

Rant OFF

Cheers,
Geary

frotog · Jul 31, 2008

Easy does it Geary! I did not mean for my opinion on the matter to be a "broad brush dismal" intending to denigrate the creative efforts of other delicate souls loved by the analogue god on high. I merely meant to voice my opinion on the efficacy of this head for printing photographs - color or b/w - and the readily available, inexpensive and better alternatives. Seeing as how the OP's interest lies in getting a working enlarger up and running my two cents is hardly a non sequitor. The cls 301 is the most uneven head I've ever printed with....in b/w (surprise) as well as color applications. My opinion (which in no way is meant to represent the opinion of this forum) is that the OP is not in a dilemma. The world of the analogue drkrm photographer is glutted with options - very inexpensive options. While it may take years to see this Durst equipment come up for auction there are numerous alternatives, many of which are better than the OEM head and certainly easier than trying to assemble one on your own. The world of the drkrm photographer has yet to resemble that of Mad Max. Currently there's an aristo 57 and a zone vi multicontrast 57 head available on ebay. I'd be surprised if the aristo fetches more than $50. The durst condenser head (which is not uncommon nor crazy expensive) would be the best option for the OP. If I was a collector or a connoisseur of fine things like italian sports cars I might think twice about putting something other than a durst head on this chassis. But I'm not and I'm assuming that the OP isn't either. For me the proof is in the print - not the gear you used to make it. Pip pip!

wildtypitch · Jul 31, 2008

I'm in the U.K and head very very rarely come up. I think all cold lights head have been produced by American MFR's which accounts for the lack of them this side of the pond. May end up buying a beseler 45 mxt that comes with a zone VI 4x5 cold head if its cheap enough and the repair solution does not work out. Although after having done some research on non-VC cold light heads I'm sceptical of their ability to produce a balanced and accurate enough light source required for mulitgrade papers.
-So at the moment i'm waiting in anticipation for galyons schematics.

jerry lebens · Jul 31, 2008

Hi - Coming in a bit late here, I've rebuilt two Durst 184's in the past and, to be honest, I think they were both over-engineered and too fragile. The Great for a Lab with the turnover to have them kept in tip-top condition but a temperamental liability for an amateur with limited cash and bodging skills. I know the 138 is smaller, but trying to even out the light source from the fully operational Dursts was a nightmare. Make sure you don't break any of the focus gearing because I had to get cogs cut at an engineers when Durst IT couldn't source replacements.

I can understand your desire to rebuild your enlarger but I'd look carefully at the economics. You can probably find an old DeVere 504 or even a 54 on Ebay in the uk for the same money it will cost you to rebuild the Durst. Better still, DeVere's are less temperamental and easier to set up - simpler design, so there's less to go wrong.

Actually, come to think about it, I've got a good condition DeVere 54 with both a 'double bell' Condenser Head and a Cold Cathode head in the garage if you're interested?

Regards

Jerry

jerry lebens · Jul 31, 2008

OOps Sorry... They are great for a lab...etc

jp80874 · Jul 31, 2008

wildtypitch said:
Although after having done some research on non-VC cold light heads I'm sceptical of their ability to produce a balanced and accurate enough light source required for mulitgrade papers.QUOTE]

Certainly it is wise to be skeptical entering into unknown territory. Can you tell us the nature of your research? I ask because I have been using a Durst 138 with a 12x12 inch Aristo non VC Cold Light head since late 2005. As mentioned earlier it has holders for two VC filters mounted under the lens to be used normally or for split grade printing. .

The enlarger is set up with an 8x10 glass negative holder. I normally print 16x20 and 20x24 inch enlargements on Kentmere VCFB using Ilford filters and Ilford multigrade developer. In the last year I have also used the head as a light source for 7x17 inch contact printing using the filters to change contrast as needed.

I can not offer my work to you for evaluation because of the distance that separates us. I will ask you to accept the wisdom of various college photography professors. In my retirement I have been taking university photography courses, some 15 since 2003. In the time frame using the Durst, university professors have given me a one man show of 20 images. Work has been juried into three six state competitions as well as many local contests. Your own Magnum Photographer, Martin Parr, when doing a visiting critique, suggested my current work should be made into a book. I understand he has done 43 books so may be qualified to judge. The university press has confirmed that by accepting 50 images as an installment on 100 images they would like for a book.

For what reasons do you feel, sceptical of their (non-VC cold light heads) ability to produce a balanced and accurate enough light source required for mulitgrade papers.?

John Powers

jerry lebens · Jul 31, 2008

Hi JP,

I'm sure your enlarger is very good - Mike Spry, who I interviewed for B&W Photography Magazine (UK), is one of the best printers in Britain and he uses one to produce super enlargements. I seem to remember he uses both an Aristo Head and also a point source for different purposes.

The problem with 138's is that Dursts were never as popular as DeVere in the UK and Aristo heads are very rare, here, too. Spare parts are hard to find and, as I said before, they aren't designed to be fitted by people with moderate mechanical skills. If they work they're great, if they don't, they're awful to put right. DeVere, on the other hand seem to have put a lot of thought into keeping their enlargers simple. The DeVere 54 was the British Forces favorite for many years, I suspect because you can repair them with a screwdriver and a hammer.

Jerry

ic-racer · Jul 31, 2008

galyons said:
Warning! Rant ON.

We are at a stage, in traditional analog photography, where creative solutions will prolong and expand the use of rapidly aging technology and equipment.
Please, before denigrate someones ideas, at least understand their use and give the factual reason for a non-supporting response. Unsupported, broad brush dismissals do no one in the community a positive service.

Rant OFF

Agree!!

wildtypitch · Jul 31, 2008

The Aristo non-vc just ain't an option here in sunny 'ole England.
1. Budget 2. availability 3. time frame (I have two weeks before I leave to China for god knows how long). Just somebody with some knowledge of the light mixing box in question to give me some clues is all I'm asking for.
3. I got the enlarger in exchange for a £6 pound bottle of wine, maybe I should saved up for a £10 bottle and waited till something better came up.
4. I've never used a large format enlarger before, I've always let the lab do it.
5. I'm not taking pictures of the Queen and her Corgis.
5. Eventually if the thing takes me which it probably will I will be upgrading, but I've never used the thing yet.
6. Any kind of light at the moment will give me goose pimples!

galyons · Jul 31, 2008

wildtypitch said:
.
-So at the moment i'm waiting in anticipation for galyons schematics.

Well not so sure about schematics, but here are the basic measurements.

Mind that these measurements are for the 184 version of the mixing box.
Length, horizontal to you facing the front of the head is 8".
Width, perpendicular to you facing the front of the head is 6 3/8".
Height, mixing box is 14" but that is for the 184 Lacobox 138
The 138 version is shorter in height. You will determine the proper height by measuring the interior height of the 138 mixing box chamber.

As you can see, the unit is really like a drawer with the front of the drawer closing and "sealing" the chamber. It is critical to get the mixing chamber centered to the diffusion plate on the bottom of the light head. That should, if done correctly, center the bottom of the mixing box, and its diffusion plate, over the opening to the negative carrier.

Let me know if you need other measurements. Keep us posted.

Cheers,
Geary

jerry lebens · Aug 1, 2008

£6. Now you're talking my language!...

Dump the colour head - adjusting mirrors & creating mixing box = too much of a faff. All you need is a consistent source of diffused, white, light. Find one of those cool running, flat, fluorescent grid lights - size iro 8 x 8 (or, better, a big white LED array) . Once you've removed the head ascertain the level you can build a platform from (as close to the negative plane as possible). Fit a plywood base with a rectangular hole directly above the negative carrier - the hole needs to be about 1cm bigger all around than the 5x7 neg carrier. Fit opal acrylic above hole as diffuser. Build/bodge/steal a plywood/aluminium box, with baffled vents, that will contain the lamp - holding it about 2 cms above the diffuser (preferably with option to raise or lower grid). Box interior doesn't need to be tidy. Paint interior of box white and seal for light leaks with black duct tape outside.

Bodge MG filter holder beneath lens. Leave head running constantly for printing, use safelight filter to time exposures (as you do with some cold cathode). Job done..

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