Dumb question about Yashica focusing screens

RLangham · Dec 26, 2020

So I used to have a Yashicamat 125g that looked like it had been dropped off a parking garage. It barely worked. It had the fairly standard Yashica red lines in the ground glass. As far as I knew they were for the 35mm adaptor that certain Yashicamats could take, to show you what would be visible in a 135 frame with the adaptor.

But today I bought a much older knob-wind, the Yashica D (second version with Yashinon lens), which to my knowledge does not have an associated 135 adaptor. It also has the red lines, and the manual says they're composition aids.

So which is true? Both? What were they initially for and do they actually correspond to 24x36mm format?

samcomet · Dec 26, 2020

RLangham -checking the Yashica TLR Guide by Emanuel, pub Focal Press 5th ed. 1970, both the Yashica D and the 635 are in the same chapter (presumably with the same mechanical attributes) but the addendum at the end of the chapter lists only the 635 as taking 35mm film and the use of the red lines for framing. There is no mention of a 125 G (typo?), however the chapter for the 124 G has no reference to those red lines. Hope this helps. I love all my Yashica TLR's and 35mm SLR's too and my Electro series as well. Best of luck! cheers, Sam P.S. Ther's a guy who collects old manuals online for donations. He has a lot of Yashica cameras listed here.

RLangham · Dec 26, 2020

samcomet said:
RLangham -checking the Yashica TLR Guide by Emanuel, pub Focal Press 5th ed. 1970, both the Yashica D and the 635 are in the same chapter (presumably with the same mechanical attributes) but the addendum at the end of the chapter lists only the 635 as taking 35mm film and the use of the red lines for framing. There is no mention of a 125 G (typo?), however the chapter for the 124 G has no reference to those red lines. Hope this helps. I love all my Yashica TLR's and 35mm SLR's too and my Electro series as well. Best of luck! cheers, Sam P.S. Ther's a guy who collects old manuals online for donations. He has a lot of Yashica cameras listed here.

Yeah, it was a typo. 124 stands for the two lengths of film it can take, 120 (12 shot) or 220 (24 shot).
In fact the manual I was referring to above is from Mike Butkus.
As for the 635, yes, it does appear to be a modification of the D model... Besides the 35mm adaptability the specs I've just consulted look identical--Copal MXV shutter, Yashikor and then later Yashinon lens, same overall appearance... I guess the focusing screens are the same to save cost.
My 124 may have been the anomaly in having a focusing screen taken from an earlier model... In fact I have the vaguest memory of something to that effect at the time. It wouldn't surprise me if my 124 had had the screen shattered when it sustained all the other damage.

ic-racer · Dec 27, 2020

As far as I knew they were for the 35mm adaptor

No.

RLangham · Dec 27, 2020

ic-racer said:
No.

Very helpful answer, thank you!

Dan Daniel · Dec 27, 2020

RLangham said:
Very helpful answer, thank you!

Yes.

(sorry, couldn't resist...)

samcomet · Dec 27, 2020

RLangham said:
Yeah, it was a typo. 124 stands for the two lengths of film it can take, 120 (12 shot) or 220 (24 shot).
In fact the manual I was referring to above is from Mike Butkus.
As for the 635, yes, it does appear to be a modification of the D model... Besides the 35mm adaptability the specs I've just consulted look identical--Copal MXV shutter, Yashikor and then later Yashinon lens, same overall appearance... I guess the focusing screens are the same to save cost.
My 124 may have been the anomaly in having a focusing screen taken from an earlier model... In fact I have the vaguest memory of something to that effect at the time. It wouldn't surprise me if my 124 had had the screen shattered when it sustained all the other damage.

Yes, I think that you hit the nail on the head with a "new" focussing screen for the 124. My father used to work for Yashica in NYC as their ad and public relations guy back in the 60's. Hence we had a LOT of Yashica's in the house. He had to translate the Japlish into English for reprints of the instruction booklets. I played around with the 635 and its 35mm adaptor for awhile, back then, but didn't like its portrait mode orientation due to the film transport. I suspected at the time that this was why the company did not promote the concept further. Again best of luck! Cheers, Sam

RLangham · Dec 27, 2020

samcomet said:
Yes, I think that you hit the nail on the head with a "new" focussing screen for the 124. My father used to work for Yashica in NYC as their ad and public relations guy back in the 60's. Hence we had a LOT of Yashica's in the house. He had to translate the Japlish into English for reprints of the instruction booklets. I played around with the 635 and its 35mm adaptor for awhile, back then, but didn't like its portrait mode orientation due to the film transport. I suspected at the time that this was why the company did not promote the concept further. Again best of luck! Cheers, Sam

I may have read some of his copy, then!

samcomet · Dec 27, 2020

No doubt you did. He also penned the "How to...." guides for them.... Just as a BTW I had this link stashed deep within my browser bookmarks from years ago. It is a previous version of the Focal Press guide to Yashica TLR. You may find it useful. Happy shooting. Cheers, Sam

itsdoable · Dec 28, 2020

Just for reference, my 124g has the red lines that mark out the 24mmx36mm frame of the 135 format when using the adapter on the 635, but I have not used a 635 in quite a few years, so I can't remember if it had the same screen. However, the red lines go right across the screen, so they act as composition guides too.

[edit]

For reference:

Here is the service manual for the 124

And here is the service manual fro the 124g. This shows the center portion as square, but mine is definitely 24x36mm

And here is that the 635 screen looked like - with parallax marks..

RLangham · Dec 29, 2020

itsdoable said:
Just for reference, my 124g has the red lines that mark out the 24mmx36mm frame of the 135 format when using the adapter on the 635, but I have not used a 635 in quite a few years, so I can't remember if it had the same screen. However, the red lines go right across the screen, so they act as composition guides too.

[edit]

For reference:

View attachment 262433
Here is the service manual for the 124

View attachment 262434
And here is the service manual fro the 124g. This shows the center portion as square, but mine is definitely 24x36mm

View attachment 262435
And here is that the 635 screen looked like - with parallax marks..

I think there has to be a diversity of focusing screens in these cameras, then, since there are people ITT reporting that their 124G’s do not have the red lines. I will say that the focusing screens seem remarkably easy to change... four screws and the hood and screen come off as a unit, and then I believe you loosen some more screws and the screen comes out of the hood unit.

I had assumed that the version I have on my D, which matches what you describe on your 124G, was the same version used in the 635, as the 635 is apparently based directly on the D, but this is apparently not the case. I do wonder what the utility of the four-red-line version is for composition, as it does not match the rule of thirds system most of us learned for composition. I suppose a 2:3 ratio frame in the middle is helpful if you’re planning to crop the image when enlarging it to 5x7 or other rectangular formats.

It can’t be useful for parallax compensation, can it? The lines would be much closer to the bottom edge. Look how close the parallax lines are to the regular lines on the 635 screen.

So do we definitely know which units the 35mm adaptor(s) do and do not fit? It’s just the 635, right?

itsdoable · Dec 29, 2020

RLangham said:
...So do we definitely know which units the 35mm adaptor(s) do and do not fit? It’s just the 635, right?

As far as I know, only the 635 had the film counter sprocket connection and rewind for 135. The masks and adapters may fit into several models.

I'm sure there were various screen permutations, the production was extended for quite a long time without new moldings, and I understand near the end they were just using up parts. The red lines shown in the service manual for the 124g is probably a super-slide crop, which was an option back then. "Rule of Thirds" is really more of a guide, and is meant to be broken. The horizontal and vertical lines are useful for getting the camera level regardless of where they are placed - it's always a little tricky to get the camera level with a reversed left-right waist level finder.

mklw1954 · Dec 29, 2020

I have a Yashica Mat 124 (non-G). It has the rotating pressure plate for 120 or 220 film and the red lines on the focusing glass for composition, no 24x36 outline.

RLangham · Dec 29, 2020

mklw1954 said:
I have a Yashica Mat 124 (non-G). It has the rotating pressure plate for 120 or 220 film and the red lines on the focusing glass for composition, no 24x36 outline.

Do the lines form a square or a 2:3 rectangle slightly larger (I think) than 24x36mm?

RLangham · Dec 29, 2020

itsdoable said:
As far as I know, only the 635 had the film counter sprocket connection and rewind for 135. The masks and adapters may fit into several models.

I'm sure there were various screen permutations, the production was extended for quite a long time without new moldings, and I understand near the end they were just using up parts. The red lines shown in the service manual for the 124g is probably a super-slide crop, which was an option back then. "Rule of Thirds" is really more of a guide, and is meant to be broken. The horizontal and vertical lines are useful for getting the camera level regardless of where they are placed - it's always a little tricky to get the camera level with a reversed left-right waist level finder.

Is super slide a 2:3 rectangle?

itsdoable · Dec 29, 2020

RLangham said:
Is super slide a 2:3 rectangle?

SuperSlide is a 36mmx36mm image in a 2" frame - same size frame as a regular slide, but more film.

127 film produced super slides directly.

RLangham · Dec 29, 2020

itsdoable said:
SuperSlide is a 36mmx36mm image in a 2" frame - same size frame as a regular slide, but more film.

127 film produced super slides directly.

That’s what I thought. That explains the square red line frame shown in the 124G repair manual (and yours?) but not the rectangle red square frame that my 124G and D both have.

RLangham · Dec 31, 2020

Actually, now that I’ve used the camera I think the non-square red lines are pretty genius. You have two rectangles—one smaller one in portrait orientation, and a wider one in landscape orientation that goes to the edges of the frame. Those are both useful for different things. If you’re shooting a landscape that you’re gonna crop down to a rectangular format, that larger rectangle is perfect for framing it, and you don’t lose any of the horizontal coverage of the lens.

On the other hand, for shooting portraits, the roughly 24x36mm frame means you’re shooting basically a frame of 135 format with an 80mm lens, which is a combination every 35mm photographer knows... plus, you still have the subject centered and vertical in the larger 6x6 frame, so if you end up cropping it a little wider you still have that option.

They both seem about 2:3 to me, so they’re a good indicator what you can get on standard photo paper with no waste.

Dumb question about Yashica focusing screens

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