DSLR scanning: from beginner to beginner

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Hey there,

For more then a year now I´ve been in the quest of scanning 35 mm film with my dslr with no previous experience with film scanning (either dedicated scanners, flat bed or dslr), so I just wanted to create a thread to share the process I went through, my mistakes and the shortcomings of my choices. Since I did a lot of research on how to do it, on blogs, this forum and youtube, I think the problem was not lac of information, but rather lac of experience to apply what I learned. Maybe this will help people starting with dslr scanning to make wiser decisions.

So all started with my wish to scann the family archive with almost 2k photos on 35mm negatives, since I was (or am) not in a hurry dslr scanning at home seamed to me like a great option, I could do it myself (I have a canon 60D), the image quality was fairly good and I could save some bucks comparing to buying a scann or sending all negatives to a lab to do it. After a lot research about different setups, my first try with it was a macro bellow with enlarging lenses plus slide copier. It didn't worked since with the set up I couldn't squish the 135 frame on the aps-c sensor of my camera using the bellow because it would require it to extend more then it could. With that, and more research I decided for a 'keep it simple, stupid' approach and went for a tripod and a light table using either my 28-75 mm lens or a 60mm with R mount adapted, with both I could squish the frame into the sensor but I preferred the second one since it has much better optics. To finish I got the simplest tripod and light table I could get, plus a remote shutter to avoid shaking. This worked in a sense but it was extremely labor intensive. First my tripod don't have a hard stop for 90 degrees, second I didn't got a proper film holder but used cardboard one instead (totally rookie mistake here). In the end it took me more then almost two hours to scann one film (36 photos) to get substandard results.

The main lessons learned for me were:
1 - As a thumb rule, money is direct proportional to quality. There is no free meal, you won´t get the best results investing less the $100 on it, not only the quality will be worse but equipment will require more work to set up and more adaptations will be necessary. For me it started by not having a full frame cameras, having one would probably allow for the macro bellows set up to work which in its turn would make my life much easier.
2 - If you are starting, avoid complicated equipment that you are not familiar with. I really think the bellows were a god option, but I didn't knew how to use it and I had to read and watch a lot f stuff to understand how to use it and what enlarger lens I would need. With that I almost lost a lot of money, luckily the ebay seller agreed with the return. Also avoid other funky set-up that you just saw one person using and there is not much information available.
3 - Don´t take the word of youtubers or bloggers for granted. Always question when they say something is simple, easy straight forward etc. First most of them have a lot of experience and and already tried a lot of stuff until they got to something they could post. Second the shortness of videos and articles deceive about how time consuming it is to scann film with a dslr
4 - Is it dslr really the best option for you? If you are already starting from a aps-c sensor, maybe a relatively low end flat bed scanner will deliver just as good results for an accessible price and much less headache, and any photo you really want it to be high quality you can send to a professional lab to do the job.

*DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying DSLR scanning is bad, or that is worse then any other option or that anyone should keep from trying it, I'm just sharing my personal experience so people (specially beginners) can avoid the mistakes I made

I hope some can benefit from this, or at least enjoyed the reading!

Cheers!
 

madNbad

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In 2018 I started with a battered Sony A5300 and an adapted Micro-Nikkor 55 2.8 Ai-S. Learned a lot of lessons along the way:



Keep us posted on your progress.
 
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albada

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Here's my crude-looking DSLR scanner:

DslrScanJig1.jpg


DslrScanJig2.jpg


I removed the optics from the teleconverter, so it's now an extension tube for the macro lens, allowing the 35mm film-frame to cover the APS-C sized sensor.
In the second picture above, you can see that I hacked up an old SLR, including cutting a rectangle in its pressure-plate, allowing diffused light to enter. This arrangement holds film flat, yet lets me easily move the film from frame to frame.

Mark
 

markjwyatt

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I use a Durst slide copier, 75mm enlarging lens (for 35mm and 120; 50mm lens for 35mm 1/2 frame), and a Fujifilm XT-2 (APS-C). Thisn image shows slide copying, but I digitalize B&W negatives (and a little color negative, but the conversion is not good).


Durst_setup_sm by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr
 

wiltw

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What insight can you share about the effort to find software used to reverse the negative image on orange substrate to a color positive image?

This series illustrates a trial that I did once, to understand what shortcoming there would be in utilizing standard postprocessing software (ordinarily used to postprocess positive images shot with digital cameras)
Negative, as photographed by dSLR
as%20scanned_zpsoidbavea.jpg


Postprocessing tool to 'invert' the negative image
negative%20image_zpsqa7z49bd.jpg


Best effort to correct inverted image
step2_zps2gmnwm5b.jpg


Image automatically generated via scanner software set to scan 'color negative'
Tahiti%20gals_zps4all0tir.jpg
 

markjwyatt

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I have Filmlab- an inexpensive reversal software that I have gotten ok results from. I just opened it for the first time in a while, and there was an update. Maybe it has gotten better. For B&W I just use ON1, and create presets for different film stocks.


Mardi Gras Crowd2 by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr
 

MattKing

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What insight can you share about the effort to find software used to reverse the negative image on orange substrate to a color positive image?

This series illustrates a trial that I did once, to understand what shortcoming there would be in utilizing standard postprocessing software (ordinarily used to postprocess positive images shot with digital cameras)
Negative, as photographed by dSLR
as%20scanned_zpsoidbavea.jpg


Postprocessing tool to 'invert' the negative image
negative%20image_zpsqa7z49bd.jpg


Best effort to correct inverted image
step2_zps2gmnwm5b.jpg


Image automatically generated via scanner software set to scan 'color negative'
Tahiti%20gals_zps4all0tir.jpg

You missed a critical step - you need to first compensate for the fact that the combination of the film and the mask is designed to have a simple red balance. You should not invert until after that is adjusted for.
 

Steven Lee

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You missed a critical step - you need to first compensate for the fact that the combination of the film and the mask is designed to have a simple red balance. You should not invert until after that is adjusted for.

Not really. Orange mask is just WB. You can set it before or after inversion, it doesn't matter. Guessing by looking at the results, @wiltw missed these steps:
  1. RGB curves in a negative image are offset by 1/2 of a stop. They need to be shifted and aligned. Otherwise you get raging cyan and blue.
  2. Each of RGB channels needs a gamma adjustment. It's not the same for each channel.
  3. Horizontal flip.
  4. Saturation bump.
 

koraks

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... definitely better.

Well, the massive magenta cast has made way for a massive cyan cast - it's certainly different, but whether it's actually better... :wink:
In all seriousness though, these automatic correction tools are (often) great for doing some of the heavy lifting, after which manual adjustments can be made to taste.
 

Steven Lee

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I don’t disbelieve you, but how does that work? I imagined that WB affected the whole spectrum

You're right. And so does orange mask. Think about how it's removed in a darkroom: by color filtering (analog equivalent of WB).
 
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JerseyDoug

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I use a Leitz BEOON copy stand with a Fuji APSC camera and a 50mm Schneider enlarging lens, all sitting on top of an old Logan light pad. It works great but it took a lot of trial and error to figure out the adaptors and the extension tube length.

This looks like a much easier solution.
 

markjwyatt

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Well, the massive magenta cast has made way for a massive cyan cast - it's certainly different, but whether it's actually better... :wink:
In all seriousness though, these automatic correction tools are (often) great for doing some of the heavy lifting, after which manual adjustments can be made to taste.

Clearly I will not be hired as a salesman for this software! I see the cyan cast. I need to work it some more. I thought the skin tones were ok...
 

koraks

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Yeah, the skin tones didn't turn out too bad indeed. I do think they're more blown out than they ought to be in the newer version though. It's an easy fix as long as nothing has dropped off the histogram. Does this app output in 16 bit depth?
 

markjwyatt

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Yeah, the skin tones didn't turn out too bad indeed. I do think they're more blown out than they ought to be in the newer version though. It's an easy fix as long as nothing has dropped off the histogram. Does this app output in 16 bit depth?

Yes, there is an option for 16 bit (or 8 bit) Tiff. Both versions were slightly tweaked. The newer software started me closer, and ended up where it is with some minor tweaking.

I actually tried adding more red (Magenta + Y), but I felt the skin tones were getting a bit red. Maybe more density first will help.
 

MattKing

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The mask puts different amounts of correction on to different parts of the image - all in order to cancel out the effects of dye impurities in the various components in the emulsion, and result in an image that does, indeed, have image information with a particular colour balance - actually red - overlaid upon it - I'm always uncomfortable with calling that colour balance "White Balance", but that will do.
In a darkroom, the combination of the spectral sensitivity of the paper and the "standard" filter pack is matched to that red balance. The inverted colour information in the image on the negative is responded to by the colour sensitivity of the paper, which responds with a colour inverted image - two inversions means a natural result.
 

wiltw

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Shoot chromes. No mask.

But if one has the task of digitizing color negs shot 30-70 years ago by now shooting with a modern digital camera, one has to deal with the original negatives' mask in creating modern digital positive images.
 

markjwyatt

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Yeah, the skin tones didn't turn out too bad indeed. I do think they're more blown out than they ought to be in the newer version though. It's an easy fix as long as nothing has dropped off the histogram. Does this app output in 16 bit depth?

Ok. I kept playing with that neg, but then I stopped, and started with a better quality image to start with. VPS film (mid to late 1980s); 120 (Mamiya C330f, 80mm), Metz 60 CT-1 flash. I read the Fuji RAW into FilmLab, chose the Fuji sensor source, chose incandescent light source (Durst slide copier), and then had to take a little green cast out, Moved a 16 bit TIFF to ON1, spotted and bumped up saturation a little. This works for me.


Doug by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr
 
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Huss

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What insight can you share about the effort to find software used to reverse the negative image on orange substrate to a color positive image?

This series illustrates a trial that I did once, to understand what shortcoming there would be in utilizing standard postprocessing software (ordinarily used to postprocess positive images shot with digital cameras)
Negative, as photographed by dSLR
as%20scanned_zpsoidbavea.jpg


Postprocessing tool to 'invert' the negative image
negative%20image_zpsqa7z49bd.jpg


Best effort to correct inverted image
step2_zps2gmnwm5b.jpg


Image automatically generated via scanner software set to scan 'color negative'
Tahiti%20gals_zps4all0tir.jpg

Screen grab, converted with negativelabpro


 

Huss

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Nice job...thanks for showing what that software can do! Looking it up, I learned that it works with Lightroom 6 software as well.

It is so easy to use, transformed my workflow. And my conversion is with a screen shot of your image! Imagine using it on the actual RAW file.
 

wiltw

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It is so easy to use, transformed my workflow. And my conversion is with a screen shot of your image! Imagine using it on the actual RAW file.

What did not happen so well with my initial very quick trial (using PaintShop Pro to invert a digital shot of a negative, in combination with what you showed could be readily done with very acceptable results with off-the-shelf purpose-built software) proves one of the very key elements needed for successful digital reproduction of color negatives that beginners need to keep in mind as an essential tool to have in their toolbox.

The short interchange (posts 8-17) debating about what process should work (or not) also illustrates the lack of clear understanding about just what connversion process needs to be followed (when not using software like NegativeLab Pro). This all is precisely why I broached the question to the OP to begin with!
 
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