DS-12 stock?

Olympus17 · Dec 5, 2021

The DS-10 developer formula contains Dimezone-s. Unfortunately there is no possibility to find Dimezone-s or Phenidone here. So DS-12 as a formula containing methol is better for me. My goal is to prepare a 10x concentrate.

Tom Kershaw said:
Are you making a 10x concentrate of the stock solution? I make a 5x concentrate (i.e 100g sodium sulphite per litre). From a theoretical perspective as regards Kodak Tri-X I would strongly recommend the DS-10 developer rather than DS-12. For DS-10, times of XTOL + 20% work well as a starting point.

Olympus17 · Dec 11, 2021

Hello everyone. I can't find 99% pure Triethanolamine for DS-12. 85% pure I could find. In this case, how many ml of triethanolamine should I use for 1 liter?

craigclu · Dec 11, 2021

Tom Kershaw said:
Are you making a 10x concentrate of the stock solution? I make a 5x concentrate (i.e 100g sodium sulphite per litre). From a theoretical perspective as regards Kodak Tri-X I would strongly recommend the DS-10 developer rather than DS-12. For DS-10, times of XTOL + 20% work well as a starting point.

Many years back, I was playing with these developers and made a spreadsheet for converting Xtol to DS-10 if it's any use to someone.

Olympus17 · Dec 11, 2021

craigclu said:
Many years back, I was playing with these developers and made a spreadsheet for converting Xtol to DS-10 if it's any use to someone.

Thank you so much. This really helped a lot. Would you recommend the same durations for the DS-12?

craigclu · Dec 11, 2021

I had a bad batch of Dimezone S sent to me and had burned a lot of film and time by the time that troubleshooting exposed that issue. About that time, I started also experimenting with pyro concoctions, then simplified my life with PyroCat HD and MC (and some Xtol here and there). I see that I pasted some correspondence from Ryuji in my recipe spreadsheet records that may add something for you, too. I also discovered some unexpected results when mixing film types that he alludes to below.

"This is a very fine grain developer with no loss of shadow details. This developer is intended to meet the image
quality of Kodak XTOL developer, but with more robustness against trace impurities, which may have caused unpredictable failures with XTOL.

Phenidone may be substituted for Dimezone S, but the solution should be used soon after mixing.
Phenidone B or Dimezone may also be substituted for Dimezone S with no loss of stability, but it is best to dissolve it in alcohol first together with salicylic acid.

The target pH is set 8.00 instead of XTOL's 8.20 to obtain slightly finer grain, though at about 20% increase of development time. If pH of 8.20 is targeted,
the development time is nearly identical to XTOL time. This can be achieved by cutting down the boric acid to 2.0g, and this variation is called DS-10X.

I don't know if I replied to your DS-10 comment. I don't use Pan F Plus so I can't really comment, but I do use DS-10 at 1+2 for Acros

and TMX. I no longer use HP5 Plus routinely, but my time is 8.5 minutes at 25C for 1+1 dilution, and 11.5 minutes for 1+2 dilution.

By the way, I would not mix different types of films in DS-10 even if the developing time individually determined is the same. I don't know

exactly why, but some films come out severely underdeveloped while others come out perfectly when they are mixed in the same tank.
(Many films are fine when they are processed in the same tank though.)

Ryuji

As a guide only, DS-10 development time can be estimated by finding suggested XTOL development time for small tanks and multiplying it by 1.2.
Similarly, DS-12 development time is close to Ilfosol-S (1+9) development time. DS-12 (2+1) development time is close to Ilfosol-S (1+14) development time.
Times estimated based on these commercial products are believed to be reasonably close, but running your own test is recommended."

Tom Kershaw · Dec 11, 2021

@craigclu Thanks for the spreadsheet and notes. I have been making up DS-10 with Phenidone as have a good supply and haven't run into any issues; at some point I may get in Dimezone-S to compare but this isn't something I plan to do immediately.

Olympus17 · Mar 4, 2022

Hello everyone. I prepared the DS-12 developer with a tenfold boost. For a while, I used Fomapan 400 film with a dilution ratio of 1+9 at 20 degrees for trial purposes. I tried the duration of Ilfosol-s that Ryuji Suzuki said, but the experience resulted with a negative that could be said to be quite clear, almost transparent. So 6 minutes was not enough time. I increased the time to 8 minutes on my second try. The result was still similar. Finally, I developed 6 minutes at 23 degrees. The result is still the same. Where could the error be?

Tom Kershaw · Mar 4, 2022

Olympus17 said:
Finally, I developed 6 minutes at 23 degrees. The result is still the same. Where could the error be?

Have you tried any other films with DS-12? - your development times seem too short for a start.

Olympus17 · Mar 4, 2022

Yes, I tried Kentmere 400. I got some pretty light-toned negatives on it, too. As the duration, I took the duration of Ilfosol-s as stated by Ryuji Suzuki. As I understand it, it is completely wrong to base Ilfosol-s times for DS-12.

Olympus17 · Mar 4, 2022

Are there any times you would recommend?

Tom Kershaw · Mar 4, 2022

Olympus17 said:
Are there any times you would recommend?

11 minutes @ 20C for a 100 speed film,
15 minutes @ 20C for a 400 speed film.

Tom Kershaw · Mar 4, 2022

Olympus17 said:
but the experience resulted with a negative that could be said to be quite clear, almost transparent.

Do you know your Metol and other components are working?

Olympus17 · Mar 4, 2022

Tom Kershaw said:
Do you know your Metol and other components are working?

The metol issue is also on my mind. I guess the developer may have somehow lost its functionality. I will prepare it fresh and try again with the times you give. Thank you very much for your help. Also, can you provide dilution and duration information for other movies? For some reason, some people think this information is a state secret and are reluctant or secretive about sharing it.

Tom Kershaw · Mar 4, 2022

Olympus17 said:
For some reason, some people think this information is a state secret and are reluctant or secretive about sharing it.

These times:
11 minutes @ 20C for a 100 speed film,
15 minutes @ 20C for a 400 speed film.
should be very effective starting points. Something like Pan F Plus will need less.

Also, while I haven't personally used Fomapan 400, my understanding is that many expose it @ 200 to 320 EI, which may result in needing slightly shorter times. In terms of dilution, I use 1+4, from a 5x concentrate of the formula. If mixing fresh the simpler DS-2 should work fine and have similar or the same development times.

Saganich · Mar 4, 2022

100g of sodium sulfite in 1-liter formula is no problem. I've been able to get 200g in a 1 liter concentrated D23-esq formula using a magnetic stirrer at about 30C, but I don't recommend it. From looking at the formula I agree that at 400 I'd start at 12-15 minutes.

Olympus17 · Mar 4, 2022

Tom Kershaw said:
These times:
11 minutes @ 20C for a 100 speed film,
15 minutes @ 20C for a 400 speed film.
should be very effective starting points. Something like Pan F Plus will need less.

Also, while I haven't personally used Fomapan 400, my understanding is that many expose it @ 200 to 320 EI, which may result in needing slightly shorter times. In terms of dilution, I use 1+4, from a 5x concentrate of the formula. If mixing fresh the simpler DS-2 should work fine and have similar or the same development times.

Thanks for your help. I will test the times you give with a fresh mix at the first opportunity. I will prepare the stock mix 10x concentrate. I am curious about the results I will get with the times you give in 1+9 dilution.

DS-12 stock?

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