Drying/mounting Alt process prints

KYsailor · Feb 22, 2023

This may be a question answered before - but here goes. I usually dry my cyanotypes by hanging on a line. While they dry fine - they tend to be kind of curled and wavy towards the edges. I would like to matt and frame a few, however I am not sure how to get them to lie flat in the matt/backing. Do people dry mount them to say... a piece of foam core or matt? Given their thickness is dry mounting an option? I don't have a press so I sometimes do it with a cool iron ( yea I know not optimal) ........ or is my problem the way I dry them. In my distant darkroom days I had something called blotter paper and would dry non glossy prints between the blotter paper with a couple of heavy books on top. Just curious about what others do to make their prints flat and presentable. I generally use 140 lb watercolor paper, and am about to start some VDB and Kallitype printing on similar heavy rag papers. Some suggestions would be welcome.

Dave Najewcz

johnwwyatt · Feb 22, 2023

I just iron them flat on low heat with a normal clothes iron. The iron complex is very stable.

FotoD · Feb 22, 2023

This may not be flat enough for you. But hanging the print in the top corners and putting clips with small weights in the bottom corners has given me flat enough prints.

You have to make sure the air in the room is not super dry or the prints will curl a lot.

If you rotate the print (top/bottom) after drying a few minutes it will dry more evenly (as gravity pulls most of the water to the bottom).

If there is a curl, make sure the paper is concave looking at the front. That way the backing board will push the print in place when framing it. If it's convex the paper will bulge toward the glass.

The curl doesn't set until the paper is quite dry. If you want a really flat print you can tape it to a stiff board or sheet of glass. Tape the entire length on all sides, and it'll dry completely flat.

Rick A · Feb 22, 2023

I pop my alt prints into my mounting press on low for a couple of hours or heat it up then switch it off and leave the prints in overnight. I let the platen rest on the prints without locking it down.

Alan9940 · Feb 22, 2023

I do the same thing as Rick A to flatten, then use archival paper corners to "mount" to archival matt board.

Dan Pavel · Feb 22, 2023

My DIY contact-print frame doubles as a paper press, as well. The Pictorico film packets have as first and last sheets some very good protective papers. I usually put the dry prints between 2 such papers, press them strongly and leave them overnight. Even the slightly curled gum prints made on the heavy Fabriano 640gr paper get flatten nicely this way.

KYsailor · Feb 22, 2023

Thank you all for your suggestions - it is very helpful - especially about using an iron - I was not sure if the low heat would cause some type of degradation of the image. The idea of using my contract frame is also very useful - BTW Mr Pavel - that contact frame looks really impressive. Mine is also a DIY I made from a picture frame, nice but not as nice as your.

Thanks to all!

CreationBear · Feb 22, 2023

Very informative discussion—for those of using a heat source, do you have to be extra cautious with sized paper (gelatin/arrowroot)?

BHuij · Feb 22, 2023

Printing new cyanotype and kallitype on Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, I find I get very little curling if I just let the prints dry overnight on a line, despite living in a very dry climate. What little curling I do get comes right out in 20 minutes on the lowest setting of my dry mount press. Unless I'm in a hurry, I just turn off the heat and let it sit in there for a few hours or more while the press cools.

In general HPR seems to be way less problematic and curly than silver gelatin fiber paper.

fgorga · Feb 22, 2023

My thoughts, practice on this matter...

Alt process prints can be flattened using only pressure/weight without the use of applied heat, it just takes longer. I keep a stack of heavy photo books on an out of the way table for this purpose. A batch of prints goes under the books after drying. I try to remember to flip the stack of prints over after several hours. I'm not sure that this matters and I sometimes forget to do this. Prints on most papers are pretty flat after 12 or more hours under the books.

Even if the print is not absolutely, 100% flat, the pressure of the glass in a frame generally insures every thing is flat by the end. If I am just storing prints matted but not framed and the window mat is not sitting perfectly flat, a small loop of archival artist tape near the edge of the print usually takes care of the problem.

Regarding the use of heat, low heat (as with a dry mount press) is just fine. Be careful using a clothes iron and keep the heat on low. The chemist in me says that gelatin or starch sizing will scorch if the temperature is too high, but I have no direct experience with this.

As for mounting, dry mounting while common in the past is not considered archival these days because it is not readily reversible. T-hinging with linen tape or archival photo corners (either paper or plastic) is current best practice for attaching art work to a backing board.

fgorga · Feb 22, 2023

BHuij said:
Printing new cyanotype and kallitype on Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, I find I get very little curling if I just let the prints dry overnight on a line, despite living in a very dry climate. What little curling I do get comes right out in 20 minutes on the lowest setting of my dry mount press. Unless I'm in a hurry, I just turn off the heat and let it sit in there for a few hours or more while the press cools.

In general HPR seems to be way less problematic and curly than silver gelatin fiber paper.

Yup... HPR is particularly well behaved with respect to curling as are other heavy alt process papers (e.g. Revere Platinum and Bergger Cot 320). Thinner papers are a bit more problematic but usually flatted well under pressure.

Paper curls because the two surfaces swell and shrink differentially. Traditional silver gelatin fiber paper is particularly difficult with regard to curling because one side has the relatively thick gelatin layer and the other side is more-or-less bare... i.e. the two surfaces are very different. With most alt processes, the two surfaces of the paper are quite similar. Thus curling is much less of a problem.

CreationBear · Feb 23, 2023

Much obliged, Frank—I must admit dry mounting appeals since most of the prints I can imagine producing will be in-hand sized rather than “wall art” but I don’t want to get into a creme brûlée scenario, either,

nmp · Feb 23, 2023

I dunno....I am kind of partial to dry-mounting. I wouldn't be overly concerned about heat doing anything to the gelatin sizing - after all it was a de-facto standard for silver gelatin for all this time. I use this low temperature, supposedly reversible and archival tissue called BufferMount (not sure if this is still around, I have had it with me for at least 20 years.) Mounting temp is 177oF. Just the other day I did a trial run on one of my cuprotpye test prints - I mounted it on a 8x10 piece of 320 gsm watercolor paper. Here is how it looks:

I think this is a better way to store prints if you don't want to mat/frame them and also not have them around loose when you show them to people.

That's my 2c...

:Niranjan

CreationBear · Feb 23, 2023

Excellent, Niranjan…great info, and I do rather like the “fillet” look with the black border.

KYsailor · Feb 23, 2023

Mr Patel, thanks for the thoughts and the excellent example. I will look into dry mounting a few of the ones I have made. I like the idea of using the heavy 320 gm watercolor paper - I have some WC paper that was gifted to me by an "retired" watercolorist. What I need to find is a dry mount press I never really needed one for my inkjet prints, but these alt process prints are very different. BTW that is a beautiful print - not familiar with cuprotpye process, however I will have to look into it. Right now I am just beginning my exploration of VDB and Kallitype.

Dave Najewicz

nmp · Feb 23, 2023

CreationBear said:
Excellent, Niranjan…great info, and I do rather like the “fillet” look with the black border.

Yeah, I thought may be it will give it a 3D look. Cutting it precisely is a delicate operation though. I used a razor blade and I can see it going astray and ruin the print.

:Niranjan.

nmp · Feb 23, 2023

KYsailor said:
Mr Patel, thanks for the thoughts and the excellent example. I will look into dry mounting a few of the ones I have made. I like the idea of using the heavy 320 gm watercolor paper - I have some WC paper that was gifted to me by an "retired" watercolorist. What I need to find is a dry mount press I never really needed one for my inkjet prints, but these alt process prints are very different. BTW that is a beautiful print - not familiar with cuprotpye process, however I will have to look into it. Right now I am just beginning my exploration of VDB and Kallitype.

Dave Najewicz

Welcome. I bought my dry mount press years ago from eBay for nearly the price of shipping. You can look there or also keep an eye out locally on Craigslist, etc - many times because of the weight involved, people want to sell it for pick-up only. Check out if there are any unfortunate darkrooms closing in your area.

Cuprotype (whose generic form goes back to 1850's) is this process we have been working on for several months with a new variant discovered by serendipity - here's one thread that you can check out here on Photrio:

A New Cuprotype?

Background: I thought it would be a good idea to open a new thread continuing the work started in an another thread started by @Jan de Jong on possibility of a VDB-like process using residual silver content in a depleted fixer...

www.photrio.com

There are a several more on altphotolist.groups.io as well. Search for @fgorga (from above) posts there. It is relatively simple (but not easy - as I like to say, like all alt processes) requiring, more importantly, cheap everyday ingredients.

:Niranjan.

KYsailor · Feb 23, 2023

Again, thanks for the input regarding the dry mount press - I see them occasionally for sale in the local Craig's list, however that was before I started down the Alt process road. Also the altphotolist group - with only a brief look I could see it was very interesting. I have bookmarked and will spend more time reading it in the future.

Dave

Drying/mounting Alt process prints

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