Dry-to-dry RA-4 at home, or colour darkroom in PNW?

0x001688936CA08 · Jun 26, 2025

Is anyone printing 20x24 RA-4 at home? I'm exploring options as there is no public access colour darkroom in Seattle (that I know of).

The Fujimoto desktop machines are all crazy expensive for what they are, I'd rather install a full size commercial machine for the prices I'm seeing on eBay.

Ultimately I'm looking to print up to 20x24, at least once a week, about 5-10 sheets a session. I have a Jobo CPA2 but that just seems so tedious and fiddly for prints I just couldn't stand it.

Space is not a huge concern, I have plenty of basement space.

Any opinions or pointers welcome, especially if anyone knows of a PNW colour darkroom that one can access on a regular basis.

DREW WILEY · Jun 26, 2025

Realize that large roller-transport processors need a lot of chemical volume. Just depends on how big a capacity you want to go.
I sold my 20 inch wide unit, and turned down a free 50 inch Kreonite one. You also have to factor replenishment and ventilation.

I really prefer doing it in light-tight drums using the chemistry one-shot. That solves a lot of issues, and minimizes maintenance fuss. I do up to 30X40 inch prints in drums; the big ones are no more work than small ones or even test strips, except for cutting the paper off wide rolls in the dark. My machine is quite a bit more robust than any Jobo, and the drums fill and drain much more efficiently. But there was quite a bit of personal customization involved. You can't just go out and buy something like this;
so you need some shop skills to build one yourself. But quite a few people have done it.

The exposed paper is loaded in the drums in the darkroom, and then the actual processing is done outdoors, with the roller unit on a portable cart. This minimizes my exposure to the chemistry. One can develop sensitivity to color chemistry over time.

mshchem · Jun 26, 2025

DEV TEC Drums come up on Ebay now and then, 20x24, and a trough for a water bath. You don't really need much for RA4.

btaylor · Jun 27, 2025

mshchem said:
DEV TEC Drums come up on Ebay now and then, 20x24, and a trough for a water bath. You don't really need much for RA4.

This.

I don’t even know if you would need the water bath, when I used to use drums up to 16x20 a pre-rinse to get up to temp in the drum was all that was needed. The developer is only I there for 45 seconds after all.

Also, I used to think 20x24 was the large size I wanted, but found 16x20 worked well for me and it’s easier to find gear for and handle.

I’m sensitive to RA4 developer fumes so no open trays for me.

koraks · Jun 27, 2025

0x001688936CA08 said:
I'd rather install a full size commercial machine for the prices I'm seeing on eBay.

That's a possibility, but especially for a dry-to-dry setup, have you checked what the energy costs are of running such a setup? Also, ensure your space is well-ventilated as the dryer will heat things up big-time. Might be OK on cold days, but in summer, it may make things very, very uncomfortable.

Sorry, no really good suggestions; 20x24 is big and whatever route you choose, it's going to be a chore. I only do inkjet on that size.

mshchem · Jun 27, 2025

You're not going to be able to do enough to justify the upkeep and maintenance. Both Koraks and I have a modified Durst RCP-20 roller transport system. Developer, stop, and blix. Then rinse and wash in running water, in a tray. Then I run mine through an old but reliable Ilford dryer.
The RCP-20 is limited to 8 1/2 " wide paper. I only get mine out if I need to make a bunch of prints, I use mine for black and white too.

Even this baby machine requires considerable effort, I never leave the machine sit overnight with chemistry, my rollers are in great shape because it's never been used professionally. Without parts and factory support you can't treat these machines like they were used in the good old days.

pentaxuser · Jun 27, 2025

It all boils down to how much money you want and can afford to spend, doesn't it? Come to think of it, that applies to almost everything in life with the possible exception of the pursuit of true love where more basic "drivers", established at dawn of time take over.

pentaxuser

DREW WILEY · Jun 27, 2025

Most of the energy consumption is due to the dryer, which is optional. One can air dry their prints on screens, and use a hair dryer for test strips.

There's nothing hard about 20X24 RA4 prints. Even the cheapest system once out there - Dev Tech - did it great. Their drums are easier to use than Jobo, in fact.

0x001688936CA08 · Jun 27, 2025

mshchem said:
DEV TEC Drums come up on Ebay now and then, 20x24, and a trough for a water bath. You don't really need much for RA4.

These look ok, but the manual nature of it all is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

koraks said:
That's a possibility, but especially for a dry-to-dry setup, have you checked what the energy costs are of running such a setup? Also, ensure your space is well-ventilated as the dryer will heat things up big-time. Might be OK on cold days, but in summer, it may make things very, very uncomfortable.

Sorry, no really good suggestions; 20x24 is big and whatever route you choose, it's going to be a chore. I only do inkjet on that size.

True, 20x24 is big, but I'm trying to stop drum scanning and sending out for digital c-prints, and I never print smaller than 30" on the long side. Regarding the power, without actually checking the consumption larger machines, I'm not super concerned because we have solar panels that produce vastly more than we consume, and the overage is banked with the power company. Not sure how long that sweet deal will last though.

mshchem said:
You're not going to be able to do enough to justify the upkeep and maintenance. Both Koraks and I have a modified Durst RCP-20 roller transport system. Developer, stop, and blix. Then rinse and wash in running water, in a tray. Then I run mine through an old but reliable Ilford dryer.
The RCP-20 is limited to 8 1/2 " wide paper. I only get mine out if I need to make a bunch of prints, I use mine for black and white too.

Even this baby machine requires considerable effort, I never leave the machine sit overnight with chemistry, my rollers are in great shape because it's never been used professionally. Without parts and factory support you can't treat these machines like they were used in the good old days.

The maintenance is an issue, I'm just misguided enough right now to consider it a workable solution.

Having used dry-to-dry Colenta machines for years in art school, going back to running individual tests and prints through drums just seems like the dark ages.

Thanks for sharing your experience, looks like I'll be making regular to trips to SF and LA to get my printing done in the short term.

koraks · Jun 27, 2025

0x001688936CA08 said:
Having used dry-to-dry Colenta machines for years in art school, going back to running individual tests and prints through drums just seems like the dark ages.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Honestly, I think the two real options are (1) bite the bullet on one of the bigger lab machines and deal with inevitable fuss or (2) (re)embrace digital print. Drums and troughs are...nah. And trays are a non-starter for this size prints.

DREW WILEY · Jun 27, 2025

The attached dryers on the larger roller units are apt to be 240V, just like an electric kitchen oven. Hope you are wired for that. Or just detach the dryer. Color RC paper doesn't take up much water like fiber-based prints, so will even air dry fairly quick.

mshchem · Jun 27, 2025

Anyone run a Kodak 16k Rapid color processor? ?

I know everyone makes fun of Kodak's old in the dark drum processors . I have been using a model 11 for decades . I am looking for any technical info , manuals, schematic etc . I think I have managed to take 2 and make 1. I have a big Jobo so I am doing this purely for the joy of playing...

www.photrio.com

Here's one of my threads from 9 years ago. I still have this beast. Made when CP-5 was standard, it works fine with RA4, odor isn't a problem for me. Designed for 16x20 on down, people claim it will do 20x24 but I've never tried it. Designed for fiber color paper, it's really an elegant design. Clean up takes 30 seconds. Everything one shot.

Wayne · Jul 21, 2025

0x001688936CA08 said:
Is anyone printing 20x24 RA-4 at home? I'm exploring options as there is no public access colour darkroom in Seattle (that I know of).

Any opinions or pointers welcome, especially if anyone knows of a PNW colour darkroom that one can access on a regular basis.

That's a shame, if true. I did my first ever Cibachrome printing in the early 90s at a place in Seattle. Can't remember the name, and its probably long gone now (as I am)...

It may have been this place... https://pcnw.org/facilities/black-and-white-darkroom/
If so, maybe they still have the old color processor gathering dust and would fire it up for you if you buy the chems. Not sure if they had one that did RA or not.

Koakashii · 2025-08-15T10:43:03-0400

0x001688936CA08 said:
Is anyone printing 20x24 RA-4 at home? I'm exploring options as there is no public access colour darkroom in Seattle (that I know of).

The Fujimoto desktop machines are all crazy expensive for what they are, I'd rather install a full size commercial machine for the prices I'm seeing on eBay.

Ultimately I'm looking to print up to 20x24, at least once a week, about 5-10 sheets a session. I have a Jobo CPA2 but that just seems so tedious and fiddly for prints I just couldn't stand it.

Space is not a huge concern, I have plenty of basement space.

Any opinions or pointers welcome, especially if anyone knows of a PNW colour darkroom that one can access on a regular basis.

Did you ever find a processor for your work?

0x001688936CA08 · 2025-08-15T10:57:00-0400

Koakashii said:
Did you ever find a processor for your work?

I did not.

MTGseattle · 2025-08-15T19:53:23-0400

I'm almost positive PCNW doesn't have a color processor anymore. If you pull down the "facilities" tab on their home page, color darkroom is not listed. If a machine still lives on site, I have no idea where it is. (I took a class there in 2024)

Dry-to-dry RA-4 at home, or colour darkroom in PNW?

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Anyone run a Kodak 16k Rapid color processor? ?

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Dry-to-dry RA-4 at home, or colour darkroom in PNW?

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