Friday 9 August 2019 Noon launch! ChromaGraphica Double Dry Plate Holder Kickstarter

[Nodda Duma]

I’m happy to announce that I’ve just begun testing of a dry plate holder prototype which Chroma Camera and Pictoriographica have partnered to create! This holder is an affordable, quality solution to the problem dry plate photographers face in that this critical piece of equipment hasn’t been made in decades! There are high quality wet plate holders available that work, but honestly I’d prefer to carry two plates per holder just like I carry sheet film.

Leveraging our engineering backgrounds and our uniquely suited familiarity with dry plates and large format cameras, we have a design for a modern dry plate holder which meets the requirements that we as photographers ourselves would expect for quality, practicality, and — most importantly — affordability.

We currently plan to offer plate holders in the most common sizes of 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 thru the Kickstarter.

Pic is of the two 4x5 prototype designs that I am testing, from which we will downselect to the final design in time for the campaign launch.

Campaign start is ~2 months out (depending on our dayjob workload).

If you’re not familiar with Chroma Camera, I encourage you to check their stuff out at http://chroma.camera/

Cheers,
Jason

 

[peter k.]

Ah ha... now these would fit standard 4x5 camera's, like the speed graphic, correct?

 

[Nodda Duma]

Ah ha... now these would fit standard 4x5 camera's, like the speed graphic, correct?

Yes absolutely. That’s my workhorse camera so I’ve already verified that they fit in the Speed Graphic. Since then I’ve basically been shoving the prototypes into every camera I come across to verify we properly sized it. So far so good. One slight twist: the antique film sheaths out there should fit as well so you can also run film in these...I’m testing that tonight to verify.

One thing we did know going into this is that film holder dimensions were standardized long ago, so that all the film holders out there would fit into all the cameras out there. Sort of like how film sizes are standardized. If I remember correctly, there’s a thread in the photrio archives on the topic.

We used the dimensions in that standard for establishing the basic critical “interfacing to the camera” dimensions in this holder. Making sure it fits into cameras as well as any other film holder was one of the key requirements. The current prototype testing will tell us whether we did our homework right, and gives us a chance to iron out the kinks even before the campaign launches. So yeah bottom line is I’m confident we have that nailed down.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Photo Engineer]

Mark Osterman has posted a simple mod to a regular 4x5 holder to turn it into a single plate holder. It appears to be workable for any size sheet film holder.

PE

 

[Thorpelyon]

This is fantastic, Jason. I’ll def be jumping on board.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried fitting these onto an older Graflex back... I’m thinking of my small collection of Graflex RBs.

 

[Nodda Duma]

Awesome! Thorp, are you referring to the backs that take slotted Graflex holders? I'm going to need to get myself a bit better informed on the subtleties. It's been a couple years since I looked at the differences.

These initial Kickstarter offerings are intended to fit 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 "standard backs" you could say, so in general use the rule of thumb that they will fit a camera that a "modern" sheet film holder will fit. This was an intentional decision to limit the scope of the Kickstarter to balance our available time since we both work day jobs. However, we also intentionally made this a scalable design, because after that I wanted to ensure we could supply plate holders in any size people would need. That's the same philosophy as for my dry plates so it should come as no surprise. If older Graflox backs require something slightly different, then I expect to be able to provide that... just not until after the KS.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Thorpelyon]

Yeah, I was talking about the slotted ones. I understand it's even more of a "niche" market than the Graflok backs... so no pressure. I just wasn't sure how tight your specs were on your current holders. For example, for some reason my 2x3 Graflok holders will also fit on my 2x3 Graflex backs.

Awesome! Thorp, are you referring to the backs that take slotted Graflex holders? I'm going to need to get myself a bit better informed on the subtleties. It's been a couple years since I looked at the differences.

These initial Kickstarter offerings are intended to fit 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 "standard backs" you could say, so in general use the rule of thumb that they will fit a camera that a "modern" sheet film holder will fit. This was an intentional decision to limit the scope of the Kickstarter to balance our available time since we both work day jobs. However, we also intentionally made this a scalable design, because after that I wanted to ensure we could supply plate holders in any size people would need. That's the same philosophy as for my dry plates so it should come as no surprise. If older Graflox backs require something slightly different, then I expect to be able to provide that... just not until after the KS.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[wfw]

Mark Osterman has posted a simple mod to a regular 4x5 holder to turn it into a single plate holder. It appears to be workable for any size sheet film holder.

PE

Posted where? Do you have a link?

 

[Photo Engineer]

It is now somewhere in Mark's history on Facebook. I saw it recently, so you might just want to send him an E-mail.

PE

 

[captain ZZM]

How many photographers still use dry plate? On www.macodirect.de the 6.5 X 9 plate Agfa APX 100 still in stock but has an unfriendly price- €119 for 10 sheets!

 

[Vaidotas]

Mark Osterman has posted a simple mod to a regular 4x5 holder to turn it into a single plate holder. It appears to be workable for any size sheet film holder.

PE

Could you provide source?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Again, please contact Mark at George Eastman Museum. Photos can be found on his facebook page somewhere.

PE

 

[iandvaag]

Perhaps this?
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2362336570463876&id=100000626683123

This is not to take away from Jason's product -- it will be fantastic to have a commercially available source that just works without modification. Great work Jason!

 

[Tim Stapp]

any update on this kickstarter?

 

[Nodda Duma]

The prototype 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 holders have gone through an iteration, and Steve is getting ready to ship the latest versions to me for testing. It’s been slow going since both Steve and I have been extremely busy with work, family, etc. I know he had the 4x5 holder at the Photography show he attended recently.

 

[Tim Stapp]

Good to hear! Please, keep us posted. I'd like to try your plates in 4x5.

 

[Nodda Duma]

Update!

People interested in shooting dry plates often ask me where they can find holders for the plates. In the past, I’ve suggested auction sites, antique camera shops and shows, or to the handful of crafters making hand-made wet plate holders today.

My goal is to make dry plates accessible. I decided to do something about the availability of dry plate holders.

Results of testing the latest prototype 4x5 holder that Steve Lloyd (of Chroma Camera) and I are finalizing for our upcoming dry plate holder Kickstarter! Still needs tweaking but it’s in pretty good shape. If successful, the Kickstarter will offer holders in 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10. All other sizes will follow after.

Affordability, functionality, quality. The confluence of my experience in large format, dry plates, and my deep engineering background, coupled with Steve’s experience making the Chroma Camera, his large format passion, and his deep engineering background. Stay tuned!

 

[Thorpelyon]

Eagerly awaiting! My century-old wooden plate holders are rapidly crumbling.

 

[polaroid_memories]

Any news on this project?

 

[Nodda Duma]

Any news on this project?

Steve and I were just interviewed by phlogger.co.uk for an upcoming podcast episode (the next one I think). We talk about current status of the project so watch for that.

We have quotes from injection molding houses so we know what the campaign goal should be now. Last month we put out feelers to see if we would have the number needed for a successful campaign. I think we do for 4x5 and 8x10, but 5x7 makes me nervous so that format might be dropped or be a stretch goal. I would hate to see us reach the numbers for the other two and have it be unsuccessful because we don’t hit the numbers for 5x7.

We have prototypes from our preferred injection molder (3D printed), so we are evaluating those. This is an important step because it ensures the vendor correctly interprets our CAD files and understand what we want.

That just leaves the video presentation (which as an engineer I am struggling to make exciting and fresh vs dry and technical. Any videographers near Brookline spare some help?), and setting up bank account and some teaming agreement stuff between Steve and I. Fun things like...what will we name this venture, stuff like that. We are settling on Chroma-Graphica.

In short, we’re about 80% of the way there. It has been slow progress since we both work full time and have our own side gigs going. However, Steve left his day job and is now doing Chroma Camera full time..so the pace will pick up now. We are just finalizing the things we’ve put off and trying to maximize the upfront things we can do so that turnaround of deliveries after a successful campaign will be as fast as possible.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Dry plate holders being available is good news. Blue Moon was already sold out of the plates when I inquired (that was months ago) and then they told me I'd need a modified holder. So I am looking forward to these holders.

 

[Jerevan]

Too bad the 5x7 holders seems to be hanging in the air - it is such a handy and great format. They would be the only reason for me to back the funding.

 

[Nodda Duma]

The decision bears no reflection on the usefulness nor my own interest in the format.

All it means is that we won’t injection mold 5x7 and crank out hundreds of them for the campaign and after. We will instead, if we decide it’s too much of a risk, offer 5x7 afterwards on an as-needed basis along with all the other low-volume sizes.

Let me be clear that my objective is to supply holders in *all possible* sizes at affordable cost and good quality. I’m not going to stop at just the sizes offered in the campaign.

The campaign simply covers the expense of injection molds for the sizes that will be in highest demand. That looks like 4x5 and 8x10, which is obvious, but the relative interest - not as obvious - is important.. When Steve reached out and asked about interest in sizes, there just wasn’t as many saying 5x7. When I ran the numbers it was clear that a nervously large amount of support for 4x5 and 8x10 would be needed to “prop up” the shortfall in cost of making 5x7 parts mold.

Even if 5x7 isn’t offered, I would hope you’d consider supporting the campaign, because it’s also a decision gate for Steve and I for offering dry plate holders of any size in the future. We’re not rich, you know, so a successful campaign helps fund the whole plan of supplying holders.

If it’s not successful then it will be clear that current availability of antique holders and the hand-crafted plate holder makers currently out there is sufficient. I don’t believe that statement myself..there’s a real shortfall in supply and this is a bottleneck to growing interest in dry plate. So a successful campaign is important for ensuring dry plates to continue to gain traction as a viable process. That’s the greater vision: making dry plates accessible to a larger community of large format shooters.

 

[Nodda Duma]

So we got quotes back from a very cost-competitive injection house, and based on the quote and what our campaign funding goal is, we are going to go ahead and include 5x7.

In any case, campaign launch is getting close! Just waiting for Kickstarter to go through its verification / review process. I expect to launch within the next week.

It goes without saying that this is a bit nerve-wracking. I'm hopeful that it will be successful... not for my sake per se, but for our sake as a community of photographers interested in keeping analog photography alive and growing. So I'm really hopeful for support, since I share Theo's sentiment that I'm looking forward to these holders becoming reality. I mean heck, I'm running antique holders and my own stock is dwindling through simple attrition, so I need them as much as anybody else.

Here is a comparison of holder thicknesses.

Also, a photo taken with the holder. You'll see this photo highlighted in the Kickstarter campaign video.

 

[Thorpelyon]

Congrats! Looking forward to it!