Dry mounting problem

[DutchDarkroom]

I tried dry mounting for the first time today, but i have run into some problems. I tried to dry mount a 8x10 print on slightly bigger matboard, i'm using a vevor t shirt press and fixmount ultra with fomabrom V111 paper. I used a tacking iron to stick the foil to the print and to the matboard, this worked fine. The t shirt press is set to 95 degrees (200 fahrenheit) for 2 minutes, but it barely worked at all. The tissue did stick to the paper but with a loose corner and it dind't really stick to the matboard at all. I tried a lower temperature and shorter time but with no result.

The only problems i can think of is the pressure being to little (i could adjust this) or the matboard not being fit for dry mounting (i used 'museumkarton' which i think is Dutch for matboard). Both seem unlikely.
Does anybody know what i'm doing wrong?

Information on the tissue i found online:
FixMount Ultra is a paper coated on both sides with hot-melt adhesive. It is ideally suited for mounting art prints, posters, prints, silk paintings, etc., onto cardboard, hardboard, foam board, etc., with high quality – simply, efficiently, and cost-effectively. Due to the adhesive's low activation temperature, the film is also suitable for mounting photographs, inkjet media, and materials sensitive to high temperatures. FixMount Ultra is pH-neutral and acid-free. It is approximately 50 µm thick and can be processed at temperatures above 80°C. Mounting images with hot-melt adhesive film is remarkably easy. The hot-melt adhesive film is cut slightly larger than the image, aligned with the image on the substrate, and secured with a few spots. The prepared image is then placed between silicone sheets in a preheated heat press for approximately two minutes. The heat melts the hot-melt adhesive film, bonding the image to the substrate. The heat and even pressure largely prevent bubbles or creases. The result is a clean and smooth surface.

 

[Ulrich Drolshagen]

Does the press heat on both sides? May be a t-shirt press does not. So the mat board side does not get hot enough as the only preheated side does not have enough stored energy to heat up the mat board sufficiently.

 

[GregY]

Did you pre-heat the mat board sandwiching the print?
Give it more time and monitor each minute....

 

[DutchDarkroom]

Interesting idea, however the naked photographer used the same press with good results on his YT channel. I'll check it out though, maybe it doesn't heat up sufficiently because it has to heat trough 2 matboards.

Does the press heat on both sides? May be a t-shirt press does not. So the mat board side does not get hot enough as the only preheated side does not have enough stored energy to heat up the mat board sufficiently.

 

[DutchDarkroom]

Did you pre-heat the mat board sandwiching the print?
Give it more time and monitor each minute....

Thanks for the reply. I did pre-heat the matboard, i could try a longer time but i couldn't imagine that being the problem. Product information says it should be heated for 2 minutes.

 

[GregY]

Thanks for the reply. I did pre-heat the matboard, i could try a longer time but i couldn't imagine that being the problem. Product information says it should be heated for 2 minutes.

i've occasionally had that problem w my drymount press..... additional time won't hurt anything. Is it a new t shirt press? are you sure it's at the proper temperature?
The problem is either time or temperature. Afterall....you're using a t shirt press not an actual drymount press.....

 

[DutchDarkroom]

I'll try a longer time when i get the chance. I got the press used but it looks like a newer model. I haven't measured the temperature, i just set it on the press. The product information says it works from 80 degrees celsius. What amazes me is that it stuck great when i used the tacking iron at 95 degrees, both on the paper and matboard.

 

[Don_ih]

I use a t-shirt press at 200 for about a minute. I've had no problems. Regular matboard and Kodak dry mount tissue.

 

[GregY]

I'll try a longer time when i get the chance. I got the press used but it looks like a newer model. I haven't measured the temperature, i just set it on the press. The product information says it works from 80 degrees celsius. What amazes me is that it stuck great when i used the tacking iron at 95 degrees, both on the paper and matboard.

but the tacking iron is much typically closer to the tissue..... i tack through release paper. I mount with the print sandwiched between two sheets of mat board. Your tacking iron showed you there's nothing wrong with the product.

 

[snusmumriken]

I have a massive industrial press, rescued from a London darkroom. I get non-sticking issues if there is any trace of dampness in the mount board or in the protective cards I use to keep the clean materials off the metal.

If humidity could be your problem, try drying everything in the press by warming it up, then taking it out to steam. Two or three such cycles usually does the trick for me.

 

[Pieter12]

Does not sound like your press is set hot enough. Dry mount presses usual start near 200F and go up from there. I use 225, and heat through one or two sheets of mat board, but it depends on the tissue. Also, dry mount presses only heat from one side, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[cowanw]

Some mounting tissue does well to cool under pressure. No idea about FixMount Ultra in this respect but you could do the heat and then turn the machine off and let it cool under pressure to test.

 

[Carnie Bob]

Here in my lab we received the new improved Drytac mounting tissue this year, it basically does not stick and I have tried every way to fix and as well sent to another facility and they had the same problem with the new improved tissue.. I am quite pissed off.
My supplier has a new product which he says will stick I am going to give it a go. This is a new problem for heat mounting prints , I have personally used the old stuff for almost 50 years with no problem and now there seems to be big issues.

 

[Pieter12]

Some mounting tissue does well to cool under pressure. No idea about FixMount Ultra in this respect but you could do the heat and then turn the machine off and let it cool under pressure to test.

Seal presses used to come with a large metal plate to cool under pressure. Leaving the mounted photo in the press off might not help, the press is still quite hot for a while.

 

[GregY]

Some mounting tissue does well to cool under pressure. No idea about FixMount Ultra in this respect but you could do the heat and then turn the machine off and let it cool under pressure to test.

C, the problem with that approach is that you don't find out what time/temperature works.
I'd suggest more time....then check if the tissue has melted and the print adhered. Then let it cool under weight. (I use a piece of tempered glass)

 

[GregY]

" I tried a lower temperature and shorter time but with no result."
You need more heat & longer time....

 

[snusmumriken]

Then let it cool under weight. (I use a piece of tempered glass)

Yes, that bit is very important. You need to get it under weight within seconds of taking it out of the press. If you examine it too long or start waving it about while still hot, it will come unstuck.

 

[DutchDarkroom]

" I tried a lower temperature and shorter time but with no result."
You need more heat & longer time....

I'll try this

 

[DutchDarkroom]

Yes, that bit is very important. You need to get it under weight within seconds of taking it out of the press. If you examine it too long or start waving it about while still hot, it will come unstuck.

I know you need to put it under weight and i tried it, but it came already unstuck out of the press...

 

[DutchDarkroom]

I just tried again with a test. I measured the temperature of the matboard when i opened the press with an IR meter, when i set the press to 95 degrees C it measured around 60, i had to put it to 150 degrees for the actual temperature to be around 90. Why this is exactly i don't know, but when i tried a little test with the press set to 150 for 2 minutes it stuck perfectly. I'll try a full print now but i'm confident it will work. Thanks for all the help!

 

[DutchDarkroom]

Here in my lab we received the new improved Drytac mounting tissue this year, it basically does not stick and I have tried every way to fix and as well sent to another facility and they had the same problem with the new improved tissue.. I am quite pissed off.
My supplier has a new product which he says will stick I am going to give it a go. This is a new problem for heat mounting prints , I have personally used the old stuff for almost 50 years with no problem and now there seems to be big issues.

I'm sorry to hear that. This might not be all that useful for you but i'll say it anyway. This fixmount ultra seems to work. It's available from a couple sellers in the EU, at fotoimpex they sell a 62cm roll of 50 meters for €170. I copied some product information in my original post, it's a double coated paper and works from 80 degrees celsius. If you're interested i could send you a couple of sheets, i'll never use up my roll anyway.

FOTOIMPEX Heat mounting foil (62cm x 50m) - fotoimpex.com analogue photography

Use for the mounting of pictures bigger than 30x40 to mount on a flat and stable surface. FIXMOUNT ULTRA is a heat sealable film for laminating Printed Images on strong, ...

www.fotoimpex.com

Heißklebefolien - Biedermann GmbH

 

[DutchDarkroom]

Just tried a full print, it works perfectly!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

i've occasionally had that problem w my drymount press..... additional time won't hurt anything. Is it a new t shirt press? are you sure it's at the proper temperature?
The problem is either time or temperature. Afterall....you're using a t shirt press not an actual drymount press.....

the reason for preheating the matboard isto drive the moisture out of it. I usually preheat for 2 minutes and the let it air out for another 3 minutes before the final dry mount step.

 

[stevenje]

I picked up a Seal Masterpiece 350 press from a framing shop 30+ years ago.

It was free. All you had to do was haul it away. The thing is a beast.

I purchased a set of heat test strips and ran a few tests to see how accurate the heat temperature control knob was. I mounted the test strips on to scrap pieces of mat board.

I was dialing it in for the type of acid-free dry mount tissue that I use.

See the test strip test below.

 

[snusmumriken]

Mine had the instruction ‘DO NOT MOVE!!’ scratched in the paint beside the thermostat knob, so I never have!