Drum FB print dryer and Arista paper

[Stregone]

Hey guys. I just got a pack of arista edu.ultra FB glossy paper to use in my photography class. We use a big drum dryer to dry the prints. When class started I was using ilford matte paper, and had no problems. But now with this new paper the dryer leaves a canvas pattern imprint on my prints. For now I am rack drying my prints, but I was wondering if I could adjust the heat or something on the dryer so that it wouldn't make my prints 'textured'.

I'd really like to get more ilford paper, but with the price increase it went from ~$75 for 100 sheets to ~$90. And the arista paper was only ~$50.

 

[mopar_guy]

My 25 year old Kodak Darkroom Dataguide discusses a "ferrotyping" print dryer. Gelatin from paper emulsions may be building up on the surfaces. Kodak said glossy type paper only on this type of dryer. Recommended cleaning was flushing with water, a damp photo chamois or for stubborn deposits rubbing lightly with 'Bon Ami' bar soap and polishing the plates afterward. Do NOT scratch the surfaces.

 

[Anscojohn]

Are you using a glossing solution? Are you placing the emulsion side on the drum?

 

[Stregone]

Prints go face down on the belt, so emulsion side away from the drum. The prints get stuck to the drum the other way around.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Try using a hardening fixer. You can also try reducing the pressure of the first roller - where the belt/print/drum first come together. Reduced temperature may also help.

If you dry them glossy side to the drum you need to have the drum absolutely scratch-free and mirror-surfaced. You will also need to use, as John suggested, a glossing solution such as Pakosol.

The canvas texture looks quite nice on some prints.

 

[Anscojohn]

Prints go face down on the belt, so emulsion side away from the drum. The prints get stuck to the drum the other way around.

Golly, and here we used to dry about 800 black and white glossy on a shift, and we were doing it the wrong way all the time!!
Prints went into a ferrotype solution (we used Pakosol) then on to the drum, face down.
Drums had to be clean. As Mopar guy sez, they need to be really shiny. We used Bon Ami bar soap, not the cleanser (as he stated) then polished the drum with ferrotype polish.

I guess if I were doing it the way O.P. for what some people called "engraver's matte, I would put the prints through a final bath with extra hardener. It's probably that his emulsion is too soft if it's picking up the apron.

 

[clayne]

Golly, and here we used to dry about 800 black and white glossy on a shift, and we were doing it the wrong way all the time!!
Prints went into a ferrotype solution (we used Pakosol) then on to the drum, face down.

John, how'd you go about processing 800 prints in a shift? No disbelief here, just genuine interest in some of the methods you guys employed.

 

[bdial]

The way it was done in the lab I was in, though we probably did fewer than 800 in a shift;
You have a few people printing at the same time (obviously). Each person often processes several prints at a time in 20x24 trays, which limits back and forth trips between the sink and enlargers.
Prints end up in a holding tray in water, then are batched into a big Pako print washer with a revolving drum turned by water pressure. (None of this water saving nonsense here, it probably held 20 gallons). Then into Pakosol for a bit and onto the drum dryer which stands about 6 feet tall has a drum about 3 feet in diameter. These ran continuously and could dry a print in a few minutes.

 

[Neal]

Dear Stregone,

Let the prints air dry on the screens for a while. You may have better luck then. As for sticking when the emulsion is against the drum, you just have to wait longer. Let it go around a few more times and it will pop off on its own. Keep in mind that the drum in you class darkroom is probably not in very good condition. As noted above, any imperfections will end up on your print.

Neal Wydra

 

[Anscojohn]

John, how'd you go about processing 800 prints in a shift? No disbelief here, just genuine interest in some of the methods you guys employed.

*********
Not hard at all. It was with an outfit doing convention photography. There were three of us production printers. If the load got too heavy, the boss chipped in. We had a kid who ran the print washer and the dryer as well as do odd jobs.

 

[Anscojohn]

The way it was done in the lab I was in, though we probably did fewer than 800 in a shift;
You have a few people printing at the same time (obviously). Each person often processes several prints at a time in 20x24 trays, which limits back and forth trips between the sink and enlargers.
Prints end up in a holding tray in water, then are batched into a big Pako print washer with a revolving drum turned by water pressure. (None of this water saving nonsense here, it probably held 20 gallons). Then into Pakosol for a bit and onto the drum dryer which stands about 6 feet tall has a drum about 3 feet in diameter. These ran continuously and could dry a print in a few minutes.

*******
that's about it, except for "processing several prints at a time." Everything was shot with Rolleis at F11 with strobe. Negs were on the heavy side. You souped the first half a dozen prints or so until you got your "eye." Then the exposed paper was put in a box and souped at the same time, interleaving the prints. On a light day, I would soup all my prints before going to lunch or end of the day. On a heavy day, often the bosses son would come in and soup prints for everybody. On a heavy day, I would eat lunch in the darkroom rather than go out and lose my "eye." I intended to buy a pair of red goggles to wear outside, but never did. It was a summer job and it paid well, though. And the old cigar-eating lab rats taught me a whole lot.

 

[Anscojohn]

Back to OP. The advice given about hardener, or pre-drying a bit, should work well.

 

[Stregone]

Dear Stregone,

Let the prints air dry on the screens for a while. You may have better luck then. As for sticking when the emulsion is against the drum, you just have to wait longer. Let it go around a few more times and it will pop off on its own. Keep in mind that the drum in you class darkroom is probably not in very good condition. As noted above, any imperfections will end up on your print.

Neal Wydra

Yeah, the dryer is used every day in a classroom environment. Most of the students are right out of highschool. The drum surface is definitely not polished to a mirror finish! I'll stick to air drying for now. I usualy do my printing on friday or monday to turn in on wednsday.

I can't wait to get my own darkroom setup so I don't feel so rushed to get stuff done on the one day a week I can use the school darkroom.

 

[thebdt]

Stregone:

I have the exact same problem with the school lab dryer and Arista EDU paper. You aren't going to Grossmont in El Cajon (San Diego region) are you?

 

[Stregone]

Nope, other side of the country! My class is at the Woodbridge campus of the Northern Virginia Community College, kinda near DC. One of my older sisters lives out there though. I have been to El Cajon!