Door Hinge Light Seal Replacement Woes: Makina 67

[jbf]

Hey all,

So I’ve replaced one of my Makina 67’s light seals with the Ali Asahi kits about a month ago.

Scrubbed all the old foam and adhesive off with copious amounts of alcohol etc and applied the new light seals.

All was well until this week noticed the foam on the door side of the camera right at the hinge had pulled itself off the door and was sticking to the camera body.

This is also not the first time I’ve had light seals do this. Once from a cla it happened and now with me redoing seals.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the door side foam from peeling off and sticking to the body? I’m wondering if using actual glue on the adhesive backed foam will give a better result.

Also heard using hand sanitizer on the adhesive can prevent it from sticking to the walls before your ready for it to.

Any suggestions? It’s such a pain to have to do this so many times, wasting light seal kits.

 

[250swb]

The seal strip must have been rotated for the glue to stick to the door and not uncommon with self adhesive foam, it can be a bugger to snug down square. One solution, literally, is to mix a bit of detergent in water and either dip the foam strip into this, or paint it into the channel. The detergent breaks the surface tension and the water stops the adhesive grabbing the sides of the channel as you position it. That is the way I do it, but another way for even trickier areas is not to use self adhesive foam at all but get the non-glue variety and paint a slightly diluted PVA glue into the channel and then slide the foam in. This is really easy but takes longer to fully dry out, maybe a full day in a warm room.

 

[guangong]

The seal strip must have been rotated for the glue to stick to the door and not uncommon with self adhesive foam, it can be a bugger to snug down square. One solution, literally, is to mix a bit of detergent in water and either dip the foam strip into this, or paint it into the channel. The detergent breaks the surface tension and the water stops the adhesive grabbing the sides of the channel as you position it. That is the way I do it, but another way for even trickier areas is not to use self adhesive foam at all but get the non-glue variety and paint a slightly diluted PVA glue into the channel and then slide the foam in. This is really easy but takes longer to fully dry out, maybe a full day in a warm room.

These are tricks worth filing away! Thanks!

 

[gone]

I had this problem on some old folders, so I ended up just gluing it to the camera body to get it over with. That worked, the seal didn't seem to want to stick to the door, why I don't know.

My go to glue for stuff like this is the 3M yellow weatherstripping adhesive in a squeeze tube. We used this in automotive dealerships to glue the thin weatherstrips to the side and doors of new and customer repair cars. It's much stronger than the black stuff.

We called it Elephant Snot. Put a little on both sides of whatever you're gluing, heat it up a little w/ a blow dryer, and it will be on there like white on rice. Never, ever had it come loose.

 

[jbf]

These are all fantastic suggestions all.

250swb, so the detergent water, once dry it allows the adhesive foam to stick is that the thinking? Have you ever tried using the PVA method with adhesive backed foam? I wonder if that might work (in the case of using pre-cut strips)?

Momus, How difficult is it to get the Elephant Snot 3M yellow weatherstripping adhesive off? Can you use alcohol / lighter fluid when you need to re-do?

 

[Bill Burk]

A tip I learned since after I already finished with a bunch of cameras (where I didn’t know the trick)… hand sanitizer. So it makes the double-stick tape slippery until the alcohol evaporates.

 

[4season]

Don't use rubbing alcohol to clean, because it contains lanolin or other oils, which aren't great for adhesion.

 

[250swb]

These are all fantastic suggestions all.

250swb, so the detergent water, once dry it allows the adhesive foam to stick is that the thinking? Have you ever tried using the PVA method with adhesive backed foam? I wonder if that might work (in the case of using pre-cut strips)?

Momus, How difficult is it to get the Elephant Snot 3M yellow weatherstripping adhesive off? Can you use alcohol / lighter fluid when you need to re-do?

Water and a drop of detergent isn't a new idea, there are race cars with wrinkles in their stick on race numbers, and then there are the people who used water and detergent to allow the numbers to be positioned and stick down with a smooth finish. It's how large areas of plastic wrap are laid down on a NASCAR car, and it doesn't fly off at 200m.p.h. once the water has dried off. When the foam is in the channel it's probably a good idea to let the water dry then push it down one final time to ensure firm contact, but the glue on the foam isn't water soluble, hence the reason the residue is removed with white spirit or alcohol.

 

[jbf]

Don't use rubbing alcohol to clean, because it contains lanolin or other oils, which aren't great for adhesion.

Rubbing alcohol meaning isopropol alcohol? If so that might be one of my problems.
What is a good and easily available solvent to use?

 

[4season]

Rubbing alcohol meaning isopropol alcohol? If so that might be one of my problems.
What is a good and easily available solvent to use?

If came in a white plastic bottle and was sold alongside first aid supplies in a pharmacy, then it's likely rubbing alcohol and best used for disinfecting superficial cuts and scrapes on human skin.

Hardware store alcohol sold as lacquer thinner would be better as a camera cleaner, but alcohol may be hard on rubber, painted surfaces, and plastic parts. I prefer naphtha which is commonly sold as cigarette lighter fuel.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Hardware store alcohol sold as lacquer thinner

Uh... no, this isn't what lacquer thinner is. Lacquer thinner will have acetone, naphtha, toluene, and some other compounds in it. Not to be used on painted surfaces, plastics, etc. Sort of a 'universal solvent' in the paint thinner world.

In the same place as the lacquer thinner and alcohol will often be naphtha, lighter fluid, available in quarts and gallons. Lighter fluid in bulk Some locales like areas of California have stopped selling naphtha and some other solvents because of VOC and/or health concerns.

Alcohol sold at a hardware store is probably ethanol, not the isopropyl sold as rubbing alcohol. I do not think that your drug store rubbing alcohol will have lanolin or other materials in it without this being called out on the label.

 

[John Will]

My local electronics store sells 99.8% pure Isopropyl Alcohol for uses such as head cleaning, surface cleaning and prep, contact cleaning etc.

 

[jbf]

Hey all,

Quick revisiting of this issue.
Found an old email from Ken Ruth of Bald Mountain Photography (now retired) and he mentioned he previously used focal plane shutter cloth to create a folding hinge as a replacement for the light seal.

Anyone done something like this before? Sounds interesting and easy enough for problematic door hinge seals.

 

[Dan Daniel]

(most hand sanitizers these days have moisturizers in them to keep the skin from drying out. not good for gluing)

Question- if you use rubberized clothe to make a hinge... uh... how do you plan to make it stay in place?

Two possiblities- thin 'transfer tape. Often referred to as VHB, very high bond. But you need to super thin clear stuff. And NOT application transfer tape- that is a thick low-tack material for sign making. You want something like this, which is a .002- .010" adhesive layer with no substrate- imagine rubber cement in a thin tape form, only much stronger than rubber cement will ever be. The brown is simply the backing/carrier material. The tape itself is super thin and almost clear. But has some flexibility. The following Ebay item is .010" thick which is on the thick side for the stuff, but getting the thin .002" or .005" stuff looks like you need to buy a $60 or more roll.

3M VHB F9473PC ADHESIVE TRANSFER DOUBLE STICK TAPE ( 8 ) 2" X 6" STRIPS | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3M VHB F9473PC ADHESIVE TRANSFER DOUBLE STICK TAPE ( 8 ) 2" X 6" STRIPS at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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Not the easiest tape to deal with, but very effective with some care. With something like rubber fabric (changing bags?), easiest to apply tape to an oversized piece, then trim the fabric to size.

Oh wait, this looks like .002"- https://www.ebay.com/itm/163048462920?var=462163782040

Another possibility is a contact cement, light film on both pieces, allow to dry (half hour or more), then a second coat on one side and apply after about ten-fifteen minutes. I've been having good luck with Barge Cement available at hardware stores but I only use small amounts here and there. Weldbond is what I use for larger areas. Pliobond is the 'classic' camera version.