Don't leave home without it!

DWThomas said:

I'm amazed a confrontational bozo would stop and take time to read, but it's good to see it worked out.

The ACLU may not be 100% perfect, but they are one of the few US organizations active in seeing that we all get our Constitutional rights rather than being run over roughshod by the "tyranny of the majority." They have had my support for several decades.

DaveT

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Dave, your beat is correct. Too many Americans don't seem to respect--or more likely--understand the Constitution and its fundamental importance. These are our rights. And they have to be vigilantly protected. It's what the ACLU does, whether they uphold the rights of groups we despise or not.

Democracy requires an effective educational system.

nocrop said:

Dave, your beat is correct. Too many Americans don't seem to respect--or more likely--understand the Constitution and its fundamental importance. These are our rights. And they have to be vigilantly protected. It's what the ACLU does, whether they uphold the rights of groups we despise or not.

Democracy requires an effective educational system.

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Do you have kids in public school? The educational system is awful.
Do you know people who live in subsidized housing? Most don't care about the Constitution. You have the right to take their photos but they don't care about your rights.
You have the right to take my friend's daughter's picture. If you do, you will hand the film to him or he will take it from your camera. That is the REAL WORLD!

3 Olives said:

Do you have kids in public school? The educational system is awful.
Do you know people who live in subsidized housing? Most don't care about the Constitution. You have the right to take their photos but they don't care about your rights.
You have the right to take my friend's daughter's picture. If you do, you will hand the film to him or he will take it from your camera. That is the REAL WORLD!

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Ahhh. Might makes right. The old saw of the despot and bully alike. I for one, am not afraid. That's what makes free men.

JBrunner said:

Ahhh. Might makes right. The old saw of the despot and bully alike. I for one, am not afraid. That's what makes free men.

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That's what kills free men. The world has changed.

3 Olives said:

That's what kills free men. The world has changed.

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So sad you are so beaten.

JBrunner said:

So sad you are so beaten.

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So sad you live in a fantasy world.

3 Olives said:

So sad you live in a fantasy world.

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Why? Because I reject your advice to live in fear? You can go pansy off somewhere, and that's fine, that's your right as well, and I certainly believe in it.

JBrunner said:

Why? Because I reject your advice to live in fear? You can go pansy off somewhere, and that's fine, that's your right as well, and I certainly believe in it.

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I do not live in fear and I do not pansy off. I do not seek confrontation and I do carry a gun.

JBrunner said:

You can go pansy off somewhere, and that's fine, that's your right as well, and I certainly believe in it.

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"So sad you are so beaten."

So we have the moderators of this forum calling its posters "Beaten pansies."

Are you and JD twin brothers or just brothers in arms?

I learned a long time ago that when discussing or debating politics, which of course it what this all boils down to, keep it simple.

If you want to learn what (how) a conservative thinks, ask him.
If you want to learn what (how) a liberal thinks (feels), piss him off.

Works every time!

Thomas Wilson said:

"So sad you are so beaten."

So we have the moderators of this forum calling its posters "Beaten pansies."

Are you and JD twin brothers or just brothers in arms?

I learned a long time ago that when discussing or debating politics, which of course it what this all boils down to, keep it simple.

If you want to learn what (how) a conservative thinks, ask him.
If you want to learn what (how) a liberal thinks (feels), piss him off.

Works every time!

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What was it about bumper sticker philosophies?

By the way Jason and I are ex lovers and second cousins.

jd callow said:

What was it about bumper sticker philosophies?

By the way Jason and I are ex lovers and second cousins.

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Sorry to hear about the break-up!

Incidentally, for those who are interested, I have posted a POLL on this (ie on public photography, not JD and Jason's personal lives) in a new thread in this forum.

3 Olives said:

I do not live in fear........

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3 Olives said:

........ I do carry a gun.

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If the first part is true, why the need for the gun?


Steve.

Steve Smith said:

If the first part is true, why the need for the gun?


Steve.

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It is a tool like carrying jumper cables.

Yeah, really. When I'm 21, if I don't have my camera I plan to carry an M1911A1. I hope that I will never have to use it.

jd callow said:

What was it about bumper sticker philosophies?

By the way Jason and I are ex lovers and second cousins.

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Didn't you dump him for your first cousin?

Dinesh said:

Didn't you dump him for your first cousin?

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My Black Lab, Winkie

3 Olives said:

I do not live in fear and I do not pansy off. I do not seek confrontation and I do carry a gun.

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If you feel you need to carry a gun, then you are living in fear.

SInce this is my thread///
Great movie lines.
The tall drink of water with the silver spoon up his ass.

jd callow said:

My Black Lab, Winkie

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What he doesn't know is that I had Winkie, long before he even had a gleam in his eye towards that dog.

Andy K said:

If you feel you need to carry a gun, then you are living in fear.

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No, I'm just living in the real world of an American city. I only have to carry it at certain times and in specific areas. I'm 99.9% certain I'll never need it, but not carrying it would put me and my family in danger.

What Andy said and the sad thing is that you are transmitting your fear to your children.

Soap Box for this thread too?

Perhaps it is time this thread went the way of the other one which started on a similar topic. To the Soap Box. It's worth reading Chris W's remarks at the end of that other thread when you are there.

Anecdotally.

Hrm. Saying anything new at this point is probably moot and unlikely. But this discussion intrigues me, having read every post (the Q.G.'s ignored-blocked posts notwithstanding).

Something came up on Canada Day when my friend was celebrating her birthday at a lunch in an indoor restaurant. On this long table of about 18 people, I was sitting at one end when I noticed some guy at the other end pulling out a Nikon DSLR with a 300mm (maybe it was the 400mm, either way, it was an expensive toy) Nikkor AF telephoto and SB-x00 speedlight and started shooting at our end of the table. He did not know that as a photographer, I do not actually enjoy being photographed unless A) a basis of trust and mutual respect is already established; B) I am in a public space (this would exclude privately-owned spaces where the public may congregate, such as a shopping mall, or a restaurant); C) I express consent on the spot; or D) I am at the site of a news-making event (which has happened a couple of times).

His background, I later learnt, was being a concert photog and a paparazzi-style kind of guy. My friend met him years before at a concert.

At first, I looked at him and pulled out from my bag my Pentax 645 with the 150mm lens and hood (I carry around at least one film camera at all times, and on this day, it was the 645, anticipating I was going shooting in a municipal park later on), in the sense that seeing me through his viewfinder — a very displeased woman holding a somewhat imposing camera and staring right at him, aiming said camera at him — wasn't enough to stand down for a sec and ask, "What?"

Then the food arrived. Instead of sitting down to eat with everyone, he gets up from his chair and starts shooting us as we're all taking our first bites. At this point, he finally noticed that I was making direct eye contact with him and that I appeared very unhappy. I said, clear across the table, "Please stop now."

He got cocky, and the tone of his voice embodied that. "Stop? What, are you speaking for everyone at this table?"

I replied, "No. I am speaking on behalf of myself."

He looked peeved and gave this angry grin that brightly translated to, "Heh, who is this photog bitch in red telling me to put down my camera?"

My friend understood why I was upset and got up to speak with him, as he invited himself to play the "pro photog" at her birthday lunch. Apparently, his feelings were hurt, she explained, and he put the camera away. She said he meant no harm, although given his reaction, I expressed my doubt to her. I said to my friend that it was annoying to begin with, and added that he had no way of knowing that I do not like being photographed in private spaces without consent. But, I added, once our food arrived, his etiquette went from being annoying to boorish and discourteous and that the line of common regard — the lowest common denominator of civil respect — had been crossed.

Afterwards, I had planned to sit and have a defusing discussion with him, photographer-to-photographer (although that he was using a cutesy little Nikon D300, I would call him a prosuming digital imager) and to smooth out the ripples that had transpired earlier. My main point was going to be that in a literal sense, he was shooting because he felt it was his right and something he was elsewhere quite accustomed to. My refusal to grant consent in a private space, around someone whose purpose for shooting was particularly ambiguous and aggressive, failed to consider that reality is less an either/or affair — and as such, a photographer should be gauged on a case-by-case basis to adapt to the situation. In other words, he would have profited from recognizing and adjusting accordingly to nuance.

Instead, he made a quick beeline for the side exit and slipped out with nary a sound before the meal was completed. I thought this was unfortunate, because a civil conversation, ex post facto, would have proved more productive than strained shouting across a loud, long, convivial table. On the other hand, had his reaction been far more aggressive, and had he proceeded to escalate the frequency of shooting me at the other end of the table (what I would have considered an act of non-consensual, non-civil aggression), I was pretty much ready to use my 645 body to destroy his adorable long telephoto, which seriously looked like overcompensation for something he lacked on his person.

And I do know I would have done so had he gotten out of hand instead of standing down. I am grateful it did not devolve into that, as it is something I've never had to do.

You think it unreasonable for someone to be taking photographs at a birthday celebration?