Don't be a fool like me

[Rob Skeoch]

Just to clear up one point... they did open the boxes... not just scan them. You can tell by the tape.
-Rob

 

[roteague]

Just to clear up one point... they did open the boxes... not just scan them. You can tell by the tape.
-Rob

Unfortunately, with TSA and DHS, we have no rights nor recourse.

 

[copake_ham]

Unfortunately, with TSA and DHS, we have no rights nor recourse.

Sorry on this Robert, but I have to disagree.

Point One: Never, ever, put film in checked baggage. By law it HAS to be scanned/zapped or whatever with high-level X-Rays.

This law is NOT intended to harass naive photographers - it's intended to keep air passengers safe from dangerous devices etc.

If I am getting on a plane, I will gladly let them sacrifice your film put into checked baggage in order to ensure I am safe! Your film is NOT worth my life.

Point Two: A very reasonable and fair alternative exists. Film is one of a number of items that, when carried on, is exempted from x-ray scanning; although subject to hand inspection "swipes".

As the OP's thread title notes, he was foolish.

You do have "rights" (i.e. hand inspection of your carried on film). But no "right" is absolute. To paraphrase the late Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas (a very liberal justice, BTW): "No "right" is absolute. The Constitution is NOT a suicide pact."

So just deal with it. If you don't want your film trashed - don't put it into check-on luggage. It's really no more complicated than that.

 

[PBrooks]

sorry just passing on the information.

Sorry, but that is nonsense. The major shippers have neither the time, equipment or requirement to check everything that comes into the country.

 

[roteague]

Sorry on this Robert, but I have to disagree.

Point One: Never, ever, put film in checked baggage. By law it HAS to be scanned/zapped or whatever with high-level X-Rays.

This law is NOT intended to harass naive photographers - it's intended to keep air passengers safe from dangerous devices etc.

If I am getting on a plane, I will gladly let them sacrifice your film put into checked baggage in order to ensure I am safe! Your film is NOT worth my life.

Point Two: A very reasonable and fair alternative exists. Film is one of a number of items that, when carried on, is exempted from x-ray scanning; although subject to hand inspection "swipes".

As the OP's thread title notes, he was foolish.

You do have "rights" (i.e. hand inspection of your carried on film). But no "right" is absolute. To paraphrase the late Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas (a very liberal justice, BTW): "No "right" is absolute. The Constitution is NOT a suicide pact."

So just deal with it. If you don't want your film trashed - don't put it into check-on luggage. It's really no more complicated than that.

I agree with all your points George. I just meant that in the end, we have no recourse against any decision that the TSA/DHS chooses to make; they have enough leeway in the law that they can change any regulation at a mere whim, without any justification to the public, other than wave the magic phrase "national security" (just like the way we can't carry water on an airplane).

 

[Craig]

I just meant that in the end, we have no recourse against any decision that the TSA/DHS chooses to make

Customs and airports are the only places where you're presumed guilty until proven innocent, and you have no appeal if they decide you're guilty.

Sure sounds like the "evil empire" that all the 1950's American propaganda said the Soviets were like, doesn't it?

 

[larkis]

Sorry on this Robert, but I have to disagree.

Point One: Never, ever, put film in checked baggage. By law it HAS to be scanned/zapped or whatever with high-level X-Rays.

This law is NOT intended to harass naive photographers - it's intended to keep air passengers safe from dangerous devices etc.

If I am getting on a plane, I will gladly let them sacrifice your film put into checked baggage in order to ensure I am safe! Your film is NOT worth my life.

I'm curious, how many incidents have been reported where explosives disguised as sheet (or any other type) of film have been found ?

There was a video on youtube a while back that showed a very powerful explosive that could be inserted into the ink cartridge of a pen and was pretty much impossible to detect, yet no one opens or even hand checks pens at airport security.

I'm sure there are a lot better places to insert explosives into than film boxes.

If you think that makes a flight safer then so be it, but a few years ago I walked past the security checkpoint coming back from Washington DC because there was no one there (!!) and boarded the airplane. That felt safe....

 

[JBrunner]

Despite the occasional weirdness I have on occasion been subject to, regarding hand inspection, etc. I have to side with the TSA on this. They are very clear that anything in checked baggage will almost certainly be zapped, and very adamantly advise persons not to transport film (exposed or otherwise) in checked baggage. That is clearly what happened here. Very unfortunate, tragic even, but sadly it is the fault of the OP, not TSA. (God who'd a thought I'd ever stick up for those morons.)

 

[Daniel Grenier]

Sucks !

This is a rare instance where digital is "better" than analog. Kinda hard to fog bits and bytes..... but kidding aside, you may want to try & FedEx your film home prior to flying back. I don't believe they'd crack your film boxes open like those guys did.

 

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Rob,I'm sorry to hear about this. I know we were both at Mono lake one morning and the light was beautiful. Living in California, I don't have to deal with all of this security mess. Again, sorry to hear about this.


Jim

 

[JBrunner]

Sucks !

This is a rare instance where digital is "better" than analog. Kinda hard to fog bits and bytes..... but kidding aside, you may want to try & FedEx your film home prior to flying back. I don't believe they'd crack your film boxes open like those guys did.

Fed Ex randomly scans cargo with the big scanners. If your film is in a scanned shipment, it will be zapped. I have first hand experience with this. Carry on is the safest.

 

[Dave_B]

Film on Planes

I travel from Newark NJ to out west quite a bit and have transported a lot of film, usually Velvia. I always carry the film with me and ask for a hand inspection. In my experience, if one is polite and patient and leaves enough time to not be rushed, the TSA folks are always quite accomodating. Sometimes they just look at the film and sometimes they use the mass spectrometer scanner with the cottom wipes. I've never had an issue in dozens of trips. Most of the TSA workers are decent people working at a pain in the neck, low paying job, who are trying hard to keep us from being killed by lunatics. Like 99% of the folks on this planet, treat them with dignity and respect and they will return the favor.
Dave B.

 

[copake_ham]

I travel from Newark NJ to out west quite a bit and have transported a lot of film, usually Velvia. I always carry the film with me and ask for a hand inspection. In my experience, if one is polite and patient and leaves enough time to not be rushed, the TSA folks are always quite accomodating. Sometimes they just look at the film and sometimes they use the mass spectrometer scanner with the cottom wipes. I've never had an issue in dozens of trips. Most of the TSA workers are decent people working at a pain in the neck, low paying job, who are trying hard to keep us from being killed by lunatics. Like 99% of the folks on this planet, treat them with dignity and respect and they will return the favor.
Dave B.

Well put.

 

[Phil]

Here's a link to a TSA web site page that has information about 'Traveling with Film'. See the 'Specialty Film' paragraph; it includes direction for sheet film. I'd suggest checking this site every time you travel for updates.

Traveling with Film
Dead Link Removed

 

[copake_ham]

Customs and airports are the only places where you're presumed guilty until proven innocent, and you have no appeal if they decide you're guilty.

Sure sounds like the "evil empire" that all the 1950's American propaganda said the Soviets were like, doesn't it?

Actually, no.

What many of us realize is that the TSA (and Canada's equivalent) folk are "ordinary people" tasked with a difficult responsibility.

But they are freedom-loving people (fellow Americans and Canadians) and have certainly come to learn that they have to walk a very fine line between being nice to 99.99999% of air travelers (the fellow "ordinary people") while being on guard for the 0.000001% miscreants who have less than nice intentions towards the rest of us.

If you have a total problem with all law enforcement then, obviously, you have a problem with the TSA folk.

But if you understand that they have a critical job to perform (i.e. last line of defense) and, knowing that, treat them with dignity and respect - they will be very accomodating of your "needs".

Just keep your film out and available for hand inspection BEFORE you get up to the machine. Politely ask (i.e. don't TELL) the TSA person you would like (i.e. don't DEMAND) a hand inspection of your film package. And, guess what, they will gladly comply with your request.

And always remember this - your film is important to you. But, it is not important to the TSA agent or to other passengers or to the airline you are traveling on. If you make a PIA of yourself, yes, you will get a shit load of grief. And no one will give a damn and rise to your defense.

 

[Neanderman]

I've actually had worse problems when I take the film as carry on. For some reason they want to look in the box, the x-ray wasn't enough.

It is a total crap shoot that changes from airport to airport.

Last year, when I flew to the UK, the folks at my local airport couldn't have been nicer, more understanding or more thorough. They wiped down every roll of 120 and each box of sheet film with a special wipe which was then scanned for residue. Nothing was X-rayed.

But coming back through Newark, they insisted it HAD to be X-rayed, this despite my having a printout from the TSA website explaining that large format film could be hand inspected.

The most infuriating part of this is that you never know what kind of bureaucratic BS you're going to run into. I've concluded that it isn't worth flying with film anymore.

Ed

 

[Neanderman]

Here's a link to a TSA web site page that has information about 'Traveling with Film'. See the 'Specialty Film' paragraph; it includes direction for sheet film.

Forget about it. The folks in Newark could have cared less about this. X-ray it or don't take it on the plane. I was so irate that I'm surprised they didn't take me into custody.

Ed

 

[copake_ham]

I don't understand - if you were changing planes - why would you be going back through security?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Neander- unless you're toting 3200 speed film, why are you getting bent out of shape over a single xray? If you think dealing with TSA is a pain, try explaining things to Cambodian airport security... Just bite the bullet and let it go through. I took half a dozen rolls of HIE with me to Cambodia, and it got xrayed there - and then on every subsequent flight on the way home (Cambodia-Singapore, Singapore-Amsterdam, Amsterdam-NY, NY-DC). No fogging on any film, HIE, T400CN, or Fuji Reala.

 

[roteague]

Neander- unless you're toting 3200 speed film, why are you getting bent out of shape over a single xray? If you think dealing with TSA is a pain, try explaining things to Cambodian airport security... Just bite the bullet and let it go through. I took half a dozen rolls of HIE with me to Cambodia, and it got xrayed there - and then on every subsequent flight on the way home (Cambodia-Singapore, Singapore-Amsterdam, Amsterdam-NY, NY-DC). No fogging on any film, HIE, T400CN, or Fuji Reala.

You are correct. I've had film go through x-rays as many as 10 times on a single trip, with no fogging, or any other ill effects. In fact, I don't waste my or the inspectors time asking for hand checking film.

 

[roteague]

I don't understand - if you were changing planes - why would you be going back through security?

It happens a lot with international flights. Come to Honolulu for example, on an international flight. After you clear customs, you have to go back upstairs and go through the entire security check all over again. I've even had it happen with transiting through airports - like when I went through Fiji on the way to Australia. It depends upon the layout of the airport.

 

[roteague]

It is a total crap shoot that changes from airport to airport.

Everything is. On my last trip I had to pay $80 excess baggage charges flying from Honolulu to Sydney (via Nadi, Fiji). On the way back, same airline, same route, I had to pay nothing - they looked the other way at the excess weight (11kg).

 

[toyotadesigner]

Robert, sorry to read this. Really a sad story.

Phil, thanks a lot for the link to the TSA site.

All others: wouldn't it be nice if travel agents would hand out this information or online travel sites would place a big sign with a link to this information PRIOR to any trouble?

But if you think it's only for airlines - in Spain it's the same procedure with ferries. The security officers there don't speak any other language than Spanish and insist on X-raying your luggage. These outdate machines are hell for films, like the ones at the smaller Spanish airports.

IMHO it's all about arbitrariness. Same country, another airport and your films are ruined, even though the same laws and rules apply.

The best way is what some of you have already posted: carry your film in a clear plastic bag and ask for a hand inspection. If you travel to a foreign country and don't speak that particular language have a printed translation ready to show it to the staff so they know what you mean. It helps a lot!

 

[bdial]

At least in the U.S., the machines are much more consistent than the people are, I'm convinced that arbitrariness is part of the plan.
As for the "rules" there are plenty of warnings around, most of the airlines have information on their web sites on procedures, requirements, etc, plus the TSA and also the general travel sites. At all of the U.S. airports I've been through there are prominent warnings posted regarding film and checked luggage.
I suppose Rob's film showed up as a big dense block in the x-ray prompting the hand check. I'll wager it was already fogged when the box got opened.

As for the film in the plastic bag thing, I tried this in France many years ago, and the security guy would have none of it, through the machine it went.
I agree with Robert, unless you have a truly special case, like very fast film, asking for a hand inspection isn't worth it. Though on my last trip with a large format, I bought the film at my destination and mailed it back, it didn't need to cross any international borders however.

 

[Removed Account]

Has anyone had success with the lead-lined film bags? I thought about getting one for my last trip, but figured that security would just open it anyways when it came up on the x-ray, possibly generating suspicion that would cause more trouble than its worth.

- Justin