darkroommike, I understand that you were searching for Chicago Majestic tripod and head gear awhile back. I own a model 3000 tripod, and a Majestic Bencher as well, which has a perfect gear head. I'm unsure of this forum rules for contact info, but if you like, email me at [superdennis@protonmail.com] and we'll see if you can use these fine instruments."Generic incident light meter" (or, I suppose, "generic reflected light meter") is a unicorn. Meters all have their idiosyncrasies, battery meters will do much better in low light that one that is self powered, and old tired selenium cells can be weak, too. It's important to test what ever meter you use and yes, you may need to use exposure compensation under low light conditions if it has been a few decades since your meter has been serviced.
Man-Oh-Man...........what a genuinely decent guy.Peter, this may not be strictly relevant to you but I offer it for what it is worth. The attached video describes a case where an exposure based on a spot reading appears to have the edge over an exposure using an incident one. The presenter explains what was needed in the spot exposure v the incident one
The difference is shown at about 17 mins 40 secs if you want to go straight to that moment. I need to add that both are pics of scanned negatives as prints. I think he is a hybrid worker so not darkroom prints but i found his comments interesting
pentaxuser
That's wrong an 18% grey card is called so because it reflects 18% of the light falling on it, the grey color on the cards are a shade halfway between dead black and absolute white ( ie 50% )As I understand it this is a 50% average, but the 18% refers to the printing process used to arrive at it.
I have just had a look at this thread again, CMoore, and I noticed I hadn't replied so sorry about that. Yes I also think he is a genuine, decent person trying to help rather than make money out of his videosMan-Oh-Man...........what a genuinely decent guy.
He makes some damn nice videos.
How did you stumble onto him.?
Well Then..........that makes YOU a genuinely, decent guy alsoI have just had a look at this thread again, CMoore, and I noticed I hadn't replied so sorry about that. Yes I also think he is a genuine, decent person trying to help rather than make money out of his videos
I think I was first steered towards his videos from a member of the forum FADU( Film And Darkroom User) based in the U.K. A totally analogue group whose interests are literally confined to film and darkroom matters
Not always as exciting as Photrio but scores heavily on level of useful interaction
pentaxuser
I'm afraid that's wrong, too. To quote the late Barry Thornton:That's wrong an 18% grey card is called so because it reflects 18% of the light falling on it, the grey color on the cards are a shade halfway between dead black and absolute white ( ie 50% )
...I really want to get the point across, that an incident meter doesn't read significantly differently if you have a black cat in a coal mine or a polar bear in the snow, because it's looking at the light...
I have found for practical purposes over more than 60 years of photography that the Kodak 18% Grey Card is a reliable way of producing a mid tone on film.To address the question in the thread title, you have to use your judgement with any kind of meter reading. If you are taking a landscape photo, and you happen to be standing in a cloud shadow when the rest of the landscape is sun-drenched, you would obviously need to adjust the exposure indicated (...if time allows!).
I have found for practical p
I'm afraid that's wrong, too. To quote the late Barry Thornton:
"There is much confusion about this 'average' or 'middle' terminology as well. When asked, many of my clients say they visualise it [mid-grey] as the exact mid-point between black and white; the reading given by a meter pointed at, say, a chessboard with an exactly equal number of equally sized black and white squares. In fact, such a scene would give a reading, theoretically, of exactly half the reflected light of a totally white board. Half the light means the same as one stop less or one zone less; so, if pure white is zone X, then the chess board would indicate zone 1X on the meter, not the stipulated zone V for middle grey. To get a zone V reading, the chessboard would have to have around 80% of its area black. Try it with a mock up and you will see this is so."
Yes of course, because that's what exposure meters are calibrated to. And (apparently) the majority of scenes average out to 18% reflectance. It's just that 18% reflectance isn't mid-way between white and black.I have found for practical purposes over more than 60 years of photography that the Kodak 18% Grey Card is a reliable way of producing a mid tone on film.
The primary use of gray cards is to provide a standard reference object for exposure determination in photography. A gray card is an (approximate) realization of a Lambertian scatterer; its apparent brightness (and exposure determination) therefore depends only on its orientation relative to the light source. To establish the exposure for a photograph Kodak recommends placing the gray card as close to the subject as possible and "aiming the surface of the gray card toward a point one-third of the compound angle between the camera and the main light. For example, if the main light is located 30 degrees to the side and 45 degrees up from the camera-to-subject axis, aim the card 10 degrees to the side and 15 degrees up." The card should be metered from approximately six inches away. Once a meter reading has been obtained, Kodak further recommends adjusting the exposure parameters using these criteria:For subjects of normal reflectance, increase the indicated exposure by one-half stop.Yes of course, because that's what exposure meters are calibrated to. And (apparently) the majority of scenes average out to 18% reflectance. It's just that 18% reflectance isn't mid-way between white and black.
The primary use of gray cards is to provide a standard reference object for exposure determination in photography. A gray card is an (approximate) realization of a Lambertian scatterer; its apparent brightness (and exposure determination) therefore depends only on its orientation relative to the light source. To establish the exposure for a photograph Kodak recommends placing the gray card as close to the subject as possible and "aiming the surface of the gray card toward a point one-third of the compound angle between the camera and the main light. For example, if the main light is located 30 degrees to the side and 45 degrees up from the camera-to-subject axis, aim the card 10 degrees to the side and 15 degrees up." The card should be metered from approximately six inches away. Once a meter reading has been obtained, Kodak further recommends adjusting the exposure parameters using these criteria:For subjects of normal reflectance, increase the indicated exposure by one-half stop.
Incident (rather than incidental) metering measures the light hitting the subject, rather than the light reflecting off the subject. So you start with the recommendation from the meter, and then sometimes consider adjustments based on how you weight the importance of important tones in the subject.Here's a practical question, if you were shooting portraits of a black girl who was very black and using incidental metering and negative film, what compensation would you apply to the meter reading?.
I've shot a lot of black people in my life Matt, my question was a rhetorical one, because I know your answer is quite correct, but what I also know is that black people get very upset if their skin tones are too light in their portraits.Incident (rather than incidental) metering measures the light hitting the subject, rather than the light reflecting off the subject. So you start with the recommendation from the meter, and then sometimes consider adjustments based on how you weight the importance of important tones in the subject.
If you are dealing with a very dark subject - such as very dark skin - you can decide whether you wish to it to record as very dark on the negative (by following the meter's recommendation) or whether you would like to increase exposure in order to have more detail available on the negative.
If you elect to increase the exposure, you can always darken the skin later, at the printing stage.
But if you increase the exposure, it will also affect the mid-tones and highlights. In particular, the highlights may end up being too bright, and you may lose detail there (depending on the film, and what printing manipulations you have available to you).
So if you are going to adjust the exposure to deal with very dark skin, you often make your decision based on what else surrounds your subject.
And don't forget the role of specular highlights.
Living in that world... my experience is a bit different. Maybe it's cultural difference between my land and yours, but over here there is more upset over being printed too dark... even if that is the reality.I've shot a lot of black people in my life Matt, my question was a rhetorical one, because I know your answer is quite correct, but what I also know is that black people get very upset if their skin tones are too light in their portraits.
Skin tone in the final result (with negative film) is mostly a printing decision.I've shot a lot of black people in my life Matt, my question was a rhetorical one, because I know your answer is quite correct, but what I also know is that black people get very upset if their skin tones are too light in their portraits.
LOL... how true. And also...Some of the lightest white people I have seen are actually Black. Go figure.Some of the darkest black people I have seen are actually Caucasian. Go figure.
Skin tone in the final result (with negative film) is mostly a printing decision.
A subject's preferences for how they look in a photograph is a very complex issue, imbued with all sorts of generational, cultural and societal factors that are definitely outside the considerations of this thread!
I used to print wedding photos for professional photographers who served the Chinese Canadian community. At that time, they had to struggle with pleasing clients where the older generation tended to prefer a lighter skin tone in the prints while the younger generation tended to prefer a darker skin tone in the prints. As their printer, I followed their instructions!
But when you meter for negative film, you are mostly trying to preserve your options.
I don't agree Matt I think it is very relevant to the subject in this discussion because incidental metering is most used in portrait photography and photographers like me who don't do their own processing need to get the exposure right the first time not only on negative film but on slide film too.Skin tone in the final result (with negative film) is mostly a printing decision.
A subject's preferences for how they look in a photograph is a very complex issue, imbued with all sorts of generational, cultural and societal factors that are definitely outside the considerations of this thread!
I used to print wedding photos for professional photographers who served the Chinese Canadian community. At that time, they had to struggle with pleasing clients where the older generation tended to prefer a lighter skin tone in the prints while the younger generation tended to prefer a darker skin tone in the prints. As their printer, I followed their instructions!
But when you meter for negative film, you are mostly trying to preserve your options.
I don't agree Matt I think it is very relevant to the subject in this discussion because incidental metering is most used in portrait photography and photographers like me who don't do their own processing need to get the exposure right the first time not only on negative film but on slide film too.
You really are getting your exposures wrong.Some of the darkest black people I have seen are actually Caucasian. Go figure.
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