Does film have a future?

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dwross

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I think there are actually two questions:

1. Does film have a future?

2. Does AgX photography have a future?

The answer to question 1. depends on the future demand for film. If at some time the demand for film products drop below a critical level (and none of us know what that is), film is gone.

The answer to question 2. is only a function of the interests of present and future experimental minded photographers. As long as people care enough to experiment and make their own emulsions, AgX photography will survive.

I buy my crystal balls from the same outlet as everyone else, but the above is spot-on and inarguable. My personal opinion for #1 is that commercial film is going to be around for a long, long time. It may get rather expensive, but that will only serve to increase its desirability. People will talk with envy of the day when they 'can shoot film'. Same for the framed 2-dimensional analog print. Anyone just getting started now who thinks they want a longterm career in photography would be very smart to nail down chemical work just as much as bit chomping.

#2 is totally out of the theoretical closet. Superb materials can be made -- are being made-- and for a pittance of the cost of commercial. That differential is only likely to increase. Silver gelatin photography is never, ever going away.

Doomsdaying the future of film is a very strange hobby. Three cheers for all the sane, affirmative voices that keep repeating the joys of film. Thanks!
 

Phileas_Fogg

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Society is and has been vulnerable to 'herd mentality' It may or may not be worse today but because of the speed of social media it often looks or may be as such. That said there in almost any endeavour are those in society who run against the herd or if not against at least not on the exact same tack while going in the same general direction the herd is.

Film shooting is no different than many other examples. Niche's in life have and always will exist. Some grow large, some remain small, others ebb and flow the with the times and mood of society. We should stop predicting the death of film and much other stuff and just go out and shoot it, for film, use it experience it and enjoy it, whatever it may be film or other things in life and or that interest each of us. Being apart of the herd at times has its place but life often is much more rewarding when we each run off in our own directions and ways at times too.
 

PKM-25

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Doomsdaying the future of film is a very strange hobby. Three cheers for all the sane, affirmative voices that keep repeating the joys of film. Thanks!

And a big thank you for telling it like it really is!
 
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Sigh..... that may have been true in the '90s, but it's not true today.

YouTube: D800 vs Medium Format with Roth and Ramberg

I read some comments that all of the sensors need calibration, and sensors vary from batch to batch. It really does make me wonder how well the digital sensors compare to film. I've seen test results showing that color fidelity in digital sensors drops significantly, in some cases to nearly B&W, as the ISO increases.

As for a direct comparison of digital and film, may I present Twin Lens Life: Nikon D300 vs Fuji GS645, and Canon 5D MkII vs 35mm Kodak.

Since I shoot MF and LF, of course I still view digital as not measuring up, not by a long shot, not even at 80Mp.
 

mono

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< Does film have a future? >

Yes, if you buy enough!
 

PKM-25

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I'm about 45,000 clicks into my DeeAteHundred, I find it to be absolutely spectacular even up to 6,400, easily on par with scanned 6x6 color film when printed up to 40" wide. That said, except for the NYT assignment I did with it on Friday, it has sat idle since the first week of August and will until around Thanksgiving....:smile:
 

RPC

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I'm about 45,000 clicks into my DeeAteHundred, I find it to be absolutely spectacular even up to 6,400, easily on par with scanned 6x6 color film when printed up to 40" wide. That said, except for the NYT assignment I did with it on Friday, it has sat idle since the first week of August and will until around Thanksgiving....:smile:

My medium format film camera gives spectacular results too, and cost under $200. What did your D800 cost?
 
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I'm about 45,000 clicks into my DeeAteHundred...

That's a number that—like Wilt Chamberlin's 20,000—immediately goes begging for a calculator. Wanna' know the difference in definitions between "vocation" and "avocation?" Combined, I don't think I've released a camera shutter that many times in my entire life...

:tongue:

Ken
 
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I'm about 45,000 clicks into my DeeAteHundred, I find it to be absolutely spectacular even up to 6,400, easily on par with scanned 6x6 color film when printed up to 40" wide. That said, except for the NYT assignment I did with it on Friday, it has sat idle since the first week of August and will until around Thanksgiving....:smile:


What's this got to do with the thread here?
Besides which, the figure of 45,000 would seem highly improbable...
 

RattyMouse

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That's a number that—like Wilt Chamberlin's 20,000—immediately goes begging for a calculator. Wanna' know the difference in definitions between "vocation" and "avocation?" Combined, I don't think I've released a camera shutter that many times in my entire life...

:tongue:

Ken


No doubt. I have maybe 45,000 clicks on ALL my cameras over ALL my time in the hobby. It boggles the mind that one could fire off so many shots in just the few short months the D800 has been around.

I dont think I could sustain interest in photography with so many images.
 
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I'm about 45,000 clicks into my DeeAteHundred, I find it to be absolutely spectacular even up to 6,400, easily on par with scanned 6x6 color film when printed up to 40" wide. That said, except for the NYT assignment I did with it on Friday, it has sat idle since the first week of August and will until around Thanksgiving....:smile:

According to my calculations, that's about right for heavily used camera. It's something like a click a minute, eight hours a day, seven days a week, for three months. What do you photograph? Fashion?
 

MattKing

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45,000 doesn't surprise me particularly, for Dan.

His cameras are tools for work. A D800 would be something one might use when large numbers of exposures would be appropriate.

Most likely it just takes one look at one menu or report using software for him to tell how many shots he has taken.

The small amount of output I have seen from a D800 was quite impressive - I am sure it is a well appreciated tool in the hands of those whose work requirements are well matched to it.

I wonder how many shots were taken by accredited photographers at the 2012 Olympics? I wonder how the number would compare to the number of frames of film shot at the last Olympics where film was the major medium?
 

PKM-25

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My medium format film camera gives spectacular results too, and cost under $200. What did your D800 cost?

Yeah, I know, I shoot a Hasselblad 501 & 500 CM, my favorite camera of all time.
 
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No doubt. I have maybe 45,000 clicks on ALL my cameras over ALL my time in the hobby. It boggles the mind that one could fire off so many shots in just the few short months the D800 has been around.

I dont think I could sustain interest in photography with so many images.

Remember that pre-scouted location and 4:30am wake-up for me? Well, I made it out there on time. It took a while to set up the 8x10, compose, focus, and manage the image. Then I waited for sunrise and a 15 minute window between moving tree shadows. When it arrived I loaded holders into the camera, metered the required exposure, and...

Got my two (2) hard-earned shutter clicks for the day.

The first as metered. The second slightly overexposed to support the shadows in case I made an error while metering.

Ken

P.S. Lots of strange looks from the occasional passing car, but no public seminars today. Too early for anyone to be out on a Sunday morning, I guess.
 

PKM-25

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What's this got to do with the thread here?
Besides which, the figure of 45,000 would seem highly improbable...

The poster I replied to made a statement I found differently in my experience. I shoot high end advertising, corporate for the majority of my income, it's not uncommon to shoot a thousand frames a day on a gig that you are billing out at one D800 per day. One day in particular when one client could not re-schedule, I shot for 16 hours, over 3,000 frames, it was fun but nuts.

I make over 70% of my annual income in about 6 months, the rest of the time is all film and all fine art...
 
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One day in particular when one client could not re-schedule, I shot for 16 hours, over 3,000 frames, it was fun but nuts.

Yep. The difference between vocation and avocation...

:smile:

Readers should first go look at Dan's work before questioning his methods too harshly. It's pretty spectacular stuff. Especially his Kodachromes.

Ken
 
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PKM-25

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Remember that pre-scouted location and 4:30am wake-up for me? Well, I made it out there on time. It took a while to set up the 8x10, compose, focus, and manage the image. Then I waited for sunrise and a 15 minute window between moving tree shadows. When it arrived I loaded holders into the camera, metered the required exposure, and...

Got my two (2) hard-earned shutter clicks for the day.

The first as metered. The second slightly overexposed to support the shadows in case I made an error while metering.

Ken

P.S. Lots of strange looks from the occasional passing car, but no public seminars today. Too early for anyone to be out on a Sunday morning, I guess.

Thursday, hiked 9 miles and gained 2,300 vertical feet. I was carrying my 45N-2, 5 lenses on boards, 6 holders and about 1.5 liters of water in my new Lowe Pro 15L AW. I got to the lake, waited about 40 minutes for the wind to calm down, shot one holder of Rollei IR400 and called it good.

Some days I shoot one photo, other days over a thousand. But it is a great life to live daily, the photographic one. Between the time I posted the reply about 45K images and now, my wife and I took a drive up a 14 mile 4wd drive road, hiked from 10,150 feet to 12,400 in 3.6 miles, put a camera with an underwater housing in a lake filled with golden trout and nailed a last minute request for a fly fishing article.....

......film and photography are alive and well, good night...
 

Paul Goutiere

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So, I'm walking on the path by the side of Bow Lake that takes you to Bow falls, a while ago. Lots of people. ( Banff Jasper Highway, Banff Park in Canada. )

Most of the people I pass have digital somethings with them. 20 years ago a guy with a Rolleiflex wouldn't have mattered a whit, but today I feel just a little out of place. A half dozen people have asked me if I can still get film for the thing. "Yes!" I say.

Behind a little group of trees with a nice view of the glacier there is an old guy, maybe even as old as myself with a Rolleiflex, like mine, and he's setting it up on a tripod.

He sees me and my Rolleiflex; then on cue we both say together in perfect unison......."Can you still get film for that?"

"No!" we cry, again in unison. "They don't make it any more!"
 

Bill Burk

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Thursday, hiked 9 miles and gained 2,300 vertical feet. I was carrying my 45N-2, 5 lenses ...
......film and photography are alive and well, good night...

Thanks for the story PKM-25...

Got the water running and about to tray process six sheets of TMY-2 family shots...
 
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Maybe we should start a story-telling thread where people could simply recount their photographic adventures. Where they went and why. How they got here. What they photographed. What worked. What messed up. What fun they had either way.

I'd bet everyone has some interesting stories every weekend. At least it would be a positive thread. I think...

Ken
 

zsas

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Perfect idea Ken! Start the first, sure we would all add, I enjoyed reading PKM-25's
 

Bill Burk

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The negs came out and are hanging to dry. Showed my daughter the shot of her and twin brother with my dad, ankles splashed by a wave... Her comment, "why is my hair white?" I said "because it's a negative" and her reply "I know"..."but really, why is my hair white?"
 

PKM-25

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I wish I had a new story, but right now the story is that an annoying amount of smoke from all the fires out West is putting the brakes on a couple of shoots, so off to the room of dark I go...
 

Pavel+

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Film isn't any more likely to die out than wooden spoked wheels. No way. And on the plus side, I expect that with by our particular passion we will not have to grow a beard, wear a flat topped hat and eschew electricity. So it's all looking good.

But on a serious note; film is going to die. None of us wants it, however none of us would have taken seriously the future, say ten years ago. We would have scoffed at and shreaded that nut (from the future) who would have predicted that what has happened over the last ten years, back then. So what makes us any more reliable for predicting film's next ten? And we shake our heads at Kodak about not waking up and getting it?

I read things here about strategy. Bit by bit it slips. First ... no film is not going to die. Then; well perhaps Kodachrome. But you can just move to other film. Next Velvia. Ditto. Change what you shoot. Perhaps color film may die off it is sometimes conceded, here in 2012. But we can change to, ummm, yeah, black and white. Well for some people "film" WAS Kodachrome. Perhaps velvia was what kept your camera off the shelf. Those will be some great black and white sunsets I'm going to shoot in a few years!

Every time another product is discontinued or the price raised, somewhere for someone .... film dies. You turn is coming - somewhere. We are in the middle of the death of film, all of us seeing it accelerate like a car, already off the road, stuck accelerator - wall up ahead. That strikes me as an odd time for bravado. yeah, sure we are still alive. Someone will rescue us. That wall will move.

In 2004 and then more in 2006 I re-entered the film world after slowly being disenchanted more and more with digital. Actually, I like digital in as much as I can get the photos I want and photos I am proud of. But something was/is lacking for me. At that time I was worried because I thought the writing was on the wall. I thought film scanners may one day disappear. I had the Nikon coolscan 5000 but wanted the 9000. That was a lot of money though and I wanted to buy film and film gear (and did) but I had this nagging feeling. People said "don't worry, it will never die" well the Epson 750 I have now as a consolation prize ... does not substitute. Fortunately I now have a full darkroom and have moved on from the need or desire to scan. In 2008 as film prices started to creep upwards I said to myself "if you are going to do film ... really stick to you guns" I set a ceiling of 5 dollars per roll of film. That was kind of a pchychologically important step for me because back then it felt outrageous to pay a price like that for a roll of 35 or 120. It was liberating in a funny way to give myself permission to spend no matter what the cost! I was serious about it. :D Well, I've just recently upgraded that figure to 15 dollars a roll. That works for me because I don't want to get stuck on cost.

I know that this post of mine does not seem very positive. My issue is not with film. It is with the blind pretend that all is ok and we will somehow come out of this car-wreck ok. I don't think we will. I'd like to then instead suggest that we square ourselves with the fact that everything dies and now the mortician seems to be talking in slow, sad, soothing tones to film's loved ones. Naw, lets wake up to the facts so we can get on with things. I just ordered 100 rolls of neopan 120,because I don't trust Fuji's commitment to film any better than its commitment to movie film, but I do like neopan and it is still cheap. A gallon of gas or a roll? I'll take the roll, while I can.

I encourage others to see that film is dead, or will be in a few days or weeks. And then get on and shoot more of it than last year. Don't take it for granted, the way we do with breathing. The end IS nigh. :wink:
 

eddie

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I don't know if I have a future, let alone film. But, I have a present, and so does film. I'm glad that they coincide...
 
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