Does anyone use safelights to soup film anymore

Mainecoonmaniac · May 23, 2010

One of my first photo jobs in college, the "film room", the room where we processed film had an old film safelight. If I remember correctly, it was a dark green. The photographer I worked for said he never used it. The other photographer that retired used it. Is this a practiced today using a safelight to process film?

WetMogwai · May 23, 2010

I guess you could use it for film that is only blue sensitive. It might be useful for wet plate development. Most common b&w film today is panchromatic, so having a safelight on would at least fog most film.

Jesper · May 23, 2010

Films are usually panchromatic today. Don't use it unless you are certain about the film.
I never use any kind of light with undeveloped film.

Rick A · May 23, 2010

Only when I run some Orthochromatic film. I can see what I have under a red safelight.

payral · May 23, 2010

I think you should have a look to " DEVELOPING FILM BY INSPECTION"
Article written by Michael Smith & Paula Chamlee.
it's there.
http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/devinsp.html
I do practice for years now.

DanielStone · May 23, 2010

developing by inspection is a very liberating experience! Lets you "view" the negative and after some time doing this, you'll get the hang of it. Fast films(like HP5+ or Tmax400(this film isn't too good either due to the magenta dye that greg mentioned above))

I've started doing it on roll films too, it works quite nicely!

-Dan

removed account4 · May 23, 2010

i use a dark green safelight all the time
when i am processing sheet film ...
i guess i could when i am processing
roll film, but i am a bit lazy ...

john

richard ide · May 23, 2010

Koadak recommends only a few seconds exposure. At the beginning I fogged both Plus X and Tri X a little by viewing for too long.
I find that even ortho film and red light is more consistent using time.

c6h6o3 · May 23, 2010

Lots of people develop by inspection with a green safelight (15W). I would develop every sheet that way except that I can't see anything under the safelight because of the sensitization dye in the 400 TMax film I use. But when I use Efke sheet film or even Ilford roll film I always develop by inspection.

One word of caution. I would only do it with a pyrogallol or pyrocatechin based developer where the tanning action of the developer desensitizes the film somewhat after about 50% development.

Mainecoonmaniac · May 23, 2010

Hey APUGers. All of you are awesome in answering this question. I think processing film while inspecting it under a safelight can go a long way in avoiding super thin negs and those negs with bullet proof highlights. Now i'm intrigued. I might give it a try.

thisismyname09 · May 23, 2010

If you have a copy of the Darkroom Cookbook, I believe there is an entire section on developing by inspection.

David A. Goldfarb · May 23, 2010

Some people are also developing by inspection with infrared viewers, which are more expensive than green safelights, but people who do it seem to like it a lot.

This isn't so unusual in professional labs where there is complicated equipment that may require attention in the dark. For instance, I've seen a Refrema dip-and-dunk processor in a room with an IR light source and camera and a monitor screen outside the room, so the operator can be sure everything is moving smoothly and nothing's fallen off the rack. I think I've also seen pictures of workers at Dwayne's with IR goggles to keep tabs on the processing line.

Anscojohn · May 23, 2010

Mainecoonmaniac said:
One of my first photo jobs in college, the "film room", the room where we processed film had an old film safelight. If I remember correctly, it was a dark green. The photographer I worked for said he never used it. The other photographer that retired used it. Is this a practiced today using a safelight to process film?

************
A green safelight may be used, briefly, at a distance, to view half-developed panchromatic film. Also, a densensitizer (pinokryptol yellow??) can be used as a film bath before the safelight glance.

CBG · May 24, 2010

There are a lot of interesting aspects to development by inspection - DBI. Since plain blue only sensitive film and blue and green sensitive orthochromatic films have little to no red sensitivity, they should be able to be developed by suitably dim red safelights. Panchromatic emulsions are different. Sensitive to all colors, they need to be handled in pretty complete darkness till near the end of development when a brief and very dim inspection light can be used.

Towards the end of development, film can lose some of it's sensitivity. With panchromatic film, a very, very dark green filter is used, not because panchromatic bw film is less sensitive to green light, but because the eye is more sensitive to green light.

Desensitization is another path to development by inspection. Many films, but evidently not some modern films, can be partially desensitized by suitable desensitizing solutions. Generally film is bathed in the desensitizer solution prior to development, although some desensitizers can be mixed into a developer. Even after desensitization, brief and dim safelighting is still needed, just not as dim or as brief.

Some desensitizers are available commercially, Kyantec http://kyantec.com lists their D-Tec desensitzer on their web site. Pinakryptol yellow is available from Photographers Formulary.

As mentioned above, night vision devices have been used very successfully for DBI.

Mainecoonmaniac · May 24, 2010

Thanks for the link

Now that's interesting. Does the bath make the film desensitized to the point of BW ortho paper?

richard ide · May 24, 2010

I think the film speed would make it impossible to use a red safelight and I don't think that the desensitizer would affect the spectral sensitivity to the extent required.

CBG · May 24, 2010

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Now that's interesting. Does the bath make the film desensitized to the point of BW ortho paper?

I couldn't say what the comparative speeds would be.

richard ide said:
I think the film speed would make it impossible to use a red safelight and I don't think that the desensitizer would affect the spectral sensitivity to the extent required.

With which film? Panchromatic, ortho? I would really doubt a desensitizer could kill the sensitivity of any pan film down to red safelight safe, but, I don't know that for a fact. Last time i used a desensitizer was many years ago, and I was very conservative with inspection light. Used it as something of a belt and suspenders insurance plan - low light levels and low sensitivity. I used the dark green safelight as usual, and just worried less about fogging.

ruilourosa · May 24, 2010

it´s way unpractical, get a tank, charge it in the dark and develop normally, even large format!

CBG · May 25, 2010

ruilourosa said:
it´s way unpractical, get a tank, charge it in the dark and develop normally, even large format!

Some folks find it practical, and make it a normal part of their process. The control that is possible is impressive. It takes learning to just begin visualizing what the negative should look like under super dim light. I gather night vision devices are easier to learn.

Most folks can't be bothered.

Perry Way · May 25, 2010

ruilourosa said:
it´s way unpractical, get a tank, charge it in the dark and develop normally, even large format!

Impractical.

Man you just killed my high. I was getting high here just reading this material. WOW! Such great material, until hitting my head on the brick wall of unpractical! Well I know if someone says something like you said there is a logical reason for that but man... do you have to tear this down?

I think this subject is most fascinating, given that I'm fixing to make an 11x14 pinhole camera. Now the price of that film is quite high. So, wouldn't it be nice to take that film and treat it like this? I have done tray developing of sheet film long enough to HATE it. But I would return to tray development for 11x14 film if on a day of shooting I am unsure about my exposure. Might be handy to customize the development. This would be very useful to me! It is not impractical at all. In fact, it is rather practical!

Perry Way · May 25, 2010

CBG said:
Towards the end of development, film can lose some of it's sensitivity. With panchromatic film, a very, very dark green filter is used, not because panchromatic bw film is less sensitive to green light, but because the eye is more sensitive to green light.

Thank you for that information. Actually for everything you shared, but I didn't want to quote the whole lot, just to say thanks.

I have a green safelight here I got from a girl at work. It is like a Buck Rogers spaceship, art deco retro looking lamp like from the 40's or whenever that was. Always wondered what it was for. Now I know! I might actually use this technique on my next roll of Adox CHS Art 25. I'm finding a real handy purpose for the film but experimenting with primitive pinhole camera I made, and would be helpful to watch the progress, especially since it has such a short development time, and the fact that of all the speeds of the CHS Art the 25 does not like to be overexposed the most.

ruilourosa · May 25, 2010

i´m sorry about my english! i´m not american nor english!

yes i find it impractical, and as everything, opinions are like buttholes everyone has one, i much prefer a tested development and then go on by a given time, and if it is expensive you can always cut some strip tests

or swich to digital

Steve Smith · May 25, 2010

ruilourosa said:
i much prefer a tested development and then go on by a given time

If no one ever tried anything different to normal there would be nothing new (or old but re-discovered).

Steve.

Silence · May 25, 2010

We are not into analog photography because it's "practical"... we like it because it's an art... a beautiful art... otherwise we would just switch to digital or at least take our rolls to the lab and don't even bother knowing how it's done...

removed-user-1 · May 25, 2010

Silence said:
We are not into analog photography because it's "practical"... we like it because it's an art... a beautiful art... otherwise we would just switch to digital or at least that our rolls to the lab and don't even bother knowing how it's done...

Well said!

On a side note, I noticed recently that they're still using a red safelight on CSI: Miami, even for color film. :rolleyes:

Does anyone use safelights to soup film anymore

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