Does anyone make an ASA 800 film?

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reub2000

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Central Camera charged me about double for pushing a roll Tri-X about a stop. So pushing film isn't really an economical option for me.

Looking at B&H, I don't see any ASA 800 film. Does anyone make it?
 

David A. Goldfarb

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The 3200 speed films (TMZ and Delta 3200) are really about EI 800 with normal processing.
 

Lee L

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From Kodak Tech Pub F-4016 on TMAX films:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX P3200 Film is specially designed to be used as a multi-speed film. The speed you use depends on your application; make tests to determine the appropriate speed.

The nominal speed is EI 1000 when the film is processed in KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX Developer or KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX RS Developer and Replenisher, or EI 800 when it is processed in other Kodak black-and-white developers. It was determined in a manner published in ISO standards. For ease in calculating exposure and for consistency with the commonly used scale of film-speed numbers, the nominal speed has been rounded to EI 800.

So TMZ would be a nominal 800 ASA film.

(I see David types faster than I. :smile: )
 

Roger Hicks

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David A. Goldfarb said:
The 3200 speed films (TMZ and Delta 3200) are really about EI 800 with normal processing.

Depends on the dev, too. Up to 1000 (TMZ) or 1250 (Delta) in speed-increasing devs; as low as 650 or less in e.g. Rodinal (with huge grain too). Delta is about 1/3 stop faster in most devs; grainier; but in my opinion, vastly superior tonally.

The tonality of Delta 3200 will usually be better with more than ISO development, even if you over-expose. Rate Delta 3200 at 1600 or even 1000 and dev as for 3200 ('stock' development) and you'll get great tonality.

(I realize you know all this, David, but the original poster may not).

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com -- where the free 'ISO Speeds' module in the Photo School may be relevant).
 

PhotoJim

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The other obvious answer to your dilemma is to process your own film. You don't need a darkroom, just a tank and a changing bag or a light-tight room. (Many bathrooms will do the job if they don't have windows.)
 

Lee L

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reub2000,

Let us know what developer, dilution, and processing method (hand done in small tanks, nitrogen burst tank, rotary or transport processor, etc. ) your lab is using and that might draw more useful tips for getting the higher speeds you want. The lab should tell you if you inquire.

Lab surcharges are made because extended development or a change of developers for pushing requires a customized run for your roll of film.

Nothing beats DIY for film developing (except when I worked doing custom prints in a B&W lab and specified developer, dilutions, times, and agitation for hand processed B&W in the room next to mine done by a coworker... for free). You could probably set up to process your own film for less than it costs for ongoing processing surcharges.

Lee
 

john_s

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As Lee has suggested, the readers of sites like these wince when we read about people trying to get special (or even normal) processing done professionally on black and white film. Even if you don't have a darkroom, you can get film into a tank in the dark and then you can do a better job than most professional processing businesses. Dozens of APUGers would love to help you, too!
 

raucousimages

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Soup the film yourself. It is the only way to have real control.
 

htmlguru4242

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You can expose tri-x at 800 and process normally. There is SOME loss in shadow detail, but it is not very noticeable.
 
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reub2000

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john_s said:
As Lee has suggested, the readers of sites like these wince when we read about people trying to get special (or even normal) processing done professionally on black and white film. Even if you don't have a darkroom, you can get film into a tank in the dark and then you can do a better job than most professional processing businesses. Dozens of APUGers would love to help you, too!
Yes, it is very expensive to get this stuff processed.

I should be doing this type of thing in my photography class. And my parents want me to try developing film at school before they will let me setup up half of a dark room in the laundry room.

Also looking at the samples of the Kodak and Illford 3200 films on pbase, they look really grainy!
 

pauldc

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What happend to the Paterson and Foma 800 film? I haven't seen it anywhere for a while - it used to be described as a T800 whatever that meant but in the same way as Fomapan 200 was described as T200 and that is an incredible film in terms of tonality.
 

Fotohuis

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Fomapan T200 (Creative) is still available and maybe the equivalent Paterson 200 film also. The production of the Fomapan T800 was already ceased in 2001 so the Paterson equivalent of this 800 film will be also gone.

best regards,

Robert

(Foma distributor for the Netherlands)
 

Lee L

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reub2000 said:
Yes, it is very expensive to get this stuff processed.

I should be doing this type of thing in my photography class. And my parents want me to try developing film at school before they will let me setup up half of a dark room in the laundry room.

Also looking at the samples of the Kodak and Illford 3200 films on pbase, they look really grainy!
There are a few ways to get more "speed" out of a film.

Some developers naturally bring out more speed in a film; Ilford DDX, Microphen, Acufine, and a number of others. Using these can give a modest increase in real film speed, perhaps up to a stop faster than the speed on the box. I haven't done a lot of that myself.

D-76 (Ilford ID-11) and other mainstream developers typically give you the rated film speed to a stop less speed than the rated speed. Many fine art photographers and those who want a "sensitometrically correct", full scale negative end up with about 1/2 the speed printed on the box with these developers. E.g. Tri-X often falls in the 160-250 range for normal subjects on grade 2 or 3 paper in developers with D-76 levels of activity.

A second way you can "increase" film speed is what is commonly called pushing. This is often done by underexposing (rating the film at a higher speed) and overdeveloping, or giving the film a longer than normal development time. This causes a loss of shadow detail and might also increase the contrast of the negative beyond "normal". Photojournalists do this a lot to allow them to get shots they'd miss otherwise. It gives you the ability to handhold in lower light, gets a contrastier shot (all else being equal), and the extended development gives you the grainer and contrastier results you've seen on pbase. The reason that I posted the excerpt from the TMAX tech pub is to make it clear that Kodak considers TMZ a nominal 800 speed film in "standard" developers. So you often see what amounts to "pushed" results from TMZ and Delta 3200. (When it first came out, I had serious problems with photographers pushing TMZ faster than an assumed baseline speed of 3200 in normal developers and expecting me to print shadow detail that they'd left far, far behind.)

Another, much less often used method for getting more film speed is to give longer development times with reduced agitation. It became traditional in the later 20th century to give one or two agitation cycles per minute for all film development, and people also started to use constant agitation in rotary processors like Jobos in the last several decades. Reducing that agitation can help "increase" film speed without the attendant increase in highlight density that increases overall contrast. What happens in this case is that the developer sitting on the brighter parts of the image, the highlights, becomes exhausted and becomes less effective, while developer on the thin shadow portions of the image doesn't have as much exposed silver to transform, so it keeps right on working. This allows the shadows to be brought up to decent density while keeping the highlights printable on normal paper grades without "burning" them in during printing. People are starting to use this method again, so look for references to stand, semi-stand, reduced agitation, or minimal agitation development on APUG if you want more information on these methods.

You can use a combination of speed increasing developer and reduced agitation, although I haven't done much of this myself, especially with higher speed films. Look around APUG for more information with the search feature. Look especially at posts by df cardwell for the things you are trying to do.

You are highly unlikely to find a lab willing to do stand or semi-stand processing for you. It's more time consuming and not compatible with many standard lab setups. They may also look at you like you're goofy if you suggest reduced agitation, as it goes against the conventional "wisdom" of the later 20th century. You might also meet some resistance to these methods from a photo teacher, but if you can manage to give it a try in the class labs, you might both learn something.

Hope this helps.

Lee
 

CLAPhoto

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The obvious answer here is developing the film yourself. It's easy, cheap and fun. I routinely shoot Tri-X at 800, 1000 and 1250 and soup it in Diafine.
 

MattKing

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If colour is an option, Kodak Portra 800 has recently been updated.
 
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If you want it done cheaply, use the Tri-X, buy some Diafine developer, shoot it at about EI 1000, and develop it yourself.
You need. Three jugs for A) Developer part 1, B) Developer part 2, C) Fixer. One film processing tank, a couple of reels, water, and a dark space. And some time, of course. Diafine is really fast, though. From the moment you pour in the developer until it's fixed and washed, probably about 20 minutes.

- Thom
 
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