Does a Digital Focusing Device Exist?

[Qebs]

Greetings y'all,

I've searched google and didn't get any hits, but,
does anyone know if one can use digital technology to assist in view camera focusing.

This would be needed, for example, when the camera is angled down and high off the ground.
I was advised to point out, this isn't about using digital cameras to get a saved image, but just for focusing.

Oh, and David A. Goldfarb gave me permission to post this.

Thanks for reading this!
Have a great weekend
Cheers,
Kevin H.

 

[gone]

A fair number of 35mm cameras have a focus confirmation light in the viewfinder. Something like that? Should work, but it looks like a DIY project to me.

 

[Alan Gales]

Even if you had a digital back mounted to the back of the camera and tethered to a lap top on the ground, you would still need to be able to rack the lens in and out for focussing.

For a camera angled down and high off the ground, I think you need a ladder.

 

[Pieter12]

I'm guessing you want some sort of digital loupe to help focus the camera? I don't think that kind of thing exists, but you might be able to rig something with a small digital camera and macro set-up. Kinda clunky. Something I sometimes use to help focus in dim conditions is a ball of aluminum foil that I will include in the scene (f it is not too far away) or have the subject hold. The foil will be brighter and have sharp edges that are easier to focus on.

 

[Oren Grad]

When the Master Technika 2000 was introduced in the mid-1990s, Linhof briefly offered an electronic rangefinder accessory (designated EMS - "Electronic Measuring System") that mounted in the shoe on top of the camera. Despite the initial hype ("highly accurate... extremely precise") it proved to be unreliable in practice and was discontinued pretty quickly. If I remember correctly Linhof actually recalled the devices, but Bob Salomon will know for sure.

In any case, it wouldn't have helped with a camera that's mounted too high to see the focusing screen, as you wouldn't have been able to see the EMS unit's viewfinder and electronic readout either.

 

[Luckless]

I'm guessing you want some sort of digital loupe to help focus the camera? I don't think that kind of thing exists, but you might be able to rig something with a small digital camera and macro set-up. Kinda clunky. Something I sometimes use to help focus in dim conditions is a ball of aluminum foil that I will include in the scene (f it is not too far away) or have the subject hold. The foil will be brighter and have sharp edges that are easier to focus on.

They do exist with a mostly out of the box solution - "Digital field microscope" or "Digital Pocket Microscope", with many designs tethering to a phone for a larger [and remote] display.

An example, which I don't endorse but is along the lines of tool's I've worked with in the past:

https://www.amazon.ca/Skybasic-Microscope-50X-1000X-Endoscope-Smartphone/dp/B07DVFBVPF

A dark-bag and a rigging mount to let you readily move it around your ground glass without throwing off its own focus too much might be a path to a solution on fine focus in awkward positions.

 

[Qebs]

Thanks for all your replies everyone!
It is much appreciated!

Hey Luckless, thanks for your reply also!
May I ask do you use the digital microscopes with manual focus?
I can't seem to determine if the amazon product you linked is manual focus or not.
It looks like the focus and magnification are tied together somehow.
But thank you so much, this is probably exactly what I was looking for!

Have a great weekend everyone!

 

[Luckless]

I've have a similar scope which has a focus controller that could be run either from a dial on the device, or through the app. Sadly it was a gift, so I don't have a receipt for it in my email, and I can't find where I stashed it. [The nephews might actually have it, I haven't seen it in awhile.]

The amazon link was mostly just an example of the sort of offering on the market. Reviews don't look entirely terrible, especially for the price, but I can't say how easy to work with or useful that specific model actually is. Hopefully it can still serve as a stepping off point.

Honestly might order a new one and build my own rig to hook it up on my 4x5. And I look forward to seeing anyone else's setup.

 

[Maris]

If you mounted a laser to the focussing eyepiece of a view camera equipped with a coupled rangefinder, Linhof, Speed Graphic, Horseman are brands that come to mind, you could achieve focus by bringing the two projected laser spots together. Framing the subject without looking through the camera is another problem again.

 

[Qebs]

Thanks so much Luckless!
Good luck with the rig. If you get a good design, do share with us

Hey Maris, thanks for the reply.
I'm trying to picture in my head what you have in mind.
I'll keep looking on google, but not getting any good hits.

Thanks again

 

[Warm Winter]

There was one, it was a video probe sinar had for their e as an accessory called the pixel booster. It was a small video ccd on the film plane probe that would display on a small monitor. Useful for digital backs probably, but the only pictures I have seen are in the sinar website history section, the B&H pro photo sourcebook and one on flickr that was taken more recently.
So at least one was made, but from what I recall from the sourcebook, it was obscenely expensive and didn't have a digital back, so you'd still be out quite a bit extra for a Leaf DCB or other back, and might not really see the benefit without using the precision film holders.
Capcam uses a lot of tech in their camera to aid in focusing but that one is fully driven from the computer and looks like an oversized funnel.
If you knew the focus plane for it, you could try and make a gg replacement frame (for a graflok type camera) and use a cheap USB microscope to magnify the image. If you got it to line up with the focus for the film plane you'd be able to make it work just fine in terms of being able to use it successfully.
If you have a 3d printer or a friend with one it'd be a neat little project given how cheap some of those usb microscopes can be.

 

[Qebs]

Thank you Warm Winter!
Sorry for my slow reply!

 

[jimgalli]

Because of the nature of what the movements can accomplish in view cameras the job of focusing is most efficiently done by the human eye. Other auto focus things have only a single plane that moves. View camera movements adds infinite complexity to the problem. Coupled with the natural small depth of field because of the larger areas it is even more complex.

 

[maltfalc]

one of those rear view cameras for cars or a webcam or wifi security camera or anything else that can be adjusted or modded for close focus and linked to a monitor or tablet could just be mounted behind the ground glass.

 

[DREW WILEY]

It would be an enormous step backwards if one were to employ that for any routine application. It won't make life easier. Sinar developed a very expensive early version along with a remote controlled view camera for sake of radioactive or other inaccessible environments. Now video/computer monitors are routine for MF scanning backs on 4X5 cameras. But all you need is a properly-ground groundglass and a good loupe. Not kidding. What specific difficulty are you currently having? It might be best to address that problem directly first, before reaching for the stars.

Too much magnification is just going to drive you insane. I'm assuming you're not involved in large format microscopy. That silly Amazon toy isn't going to help. Your loupe should be in the 4X to 7X range.

Under some circumstances, unless the scene is distant, the simple laser pointer method of assisting focus which Maris suggested does work; but you don't need a coupled rangefinder system. A simple laser dot in the scene will give you an especially evident bright spot or set of spots to assist the ordinary process of visual ground glass focussing in dim light.

 

[GKC]

I use my digits to focus

 

[gone]

Like jim said, the eyes would seem to be a better way to do it, because the problem with view cameras is, focus on what? If the camera is being stopped all the way down for landscapes, there's no need for focus, just set it to infinity and compose the frame. If you're talking about using it in other ways, there's going to be times when only one thing is supposed to be in focus. Like a portrait where all you want sharp is the eyes. How would a digital focusing device know what part of the ground glass you want focus on, and which part you don't? It would need some sort of AI, and then it would probably throw a hissy fit when you focus on an area it doesn't like! I have enough electronic devices trying to run my day.

 

[bdial]

A digi camera that can be tethered to a tablet for viewing, and is focused on the ground glass of the big camera might accomplish what you’re looking for. Getting really accurate focus of the view camera might be difficult. If you position the digi so that the whole ground glass is in the frame, you would be able to compose too, though I imagine it would be fairly awkward.
If you work with a digi that can be manually focused, that should let you calibrate its focus point to get the clearest view of the ground glass, then you would rely on whatever zooming feature in the software controlling the image on the remote view monitor to look at details, for focus on the view camera.
A fixture to hold the digi would be a bit of a challenge, but not terribly difficult, I would think. You would want to enclose the whole contraption under a dark cloth to avoid reflections off the ground glass and get the best possible view.

Controlling the view camera’s focus digitally would be another oder of magnitude in complexity, I expect, and you would likely need to custom build a controller and other hardware/software.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Small digital camera with lens allowing close focus, with magnified view and rotating screen. Even just tilting screen could do.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Why lug around a bunch of silly electronic stuff in addition to a large camera along with tripod, film holders, lenses etc too? It won't help you. It would be like using your digital camera to focus on the food on your plate, before taking each bite. Just another curse of, "If it requires a battery, I gotta have it", consumer electronics syndrome. Yes, there are certain studio instances when remote viewing monitors factor into the overall workflow, especially for rapid pre-press applications. The equipment investment was already paid for by firing the former art department. But out in the field, it's a different story. Too much gadgetry just gets distracting and counterproductive. If it's an eyesight issue, then a conversation with your optometrist about a supplementary eyeglass magnifier might be appropriate, or just buying something outright like that to test. The simplest answers are often the best ones.

 

[Luckless]

Why lug around a bunch of silly electronic stuff in addition to a large camera along with tripod, film holders, lenses etc too? It won't help you.

Did you even read the first post? Or are you just so full of hot air that you naturally levitate and can put your head in any position around your camera, regardless of how high off the ground it is set?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Out of luck, Luckless - you're headed to my ignore list.

 

[btaylor]

are you just so full of hot air that you naturally levitate and can put your head in any position around your camera, regardless of how high off the ground it is set?

That’s a good one!
It occurs to me that when I was using video taps for motion picture cameras I used a small video camera (“machine vision”) about 1” by 1.5” and hooked up to a small video monitor. I wonder if something like that is made today that would hook up via Bluetooth?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Just go to an Edmund Scientific Industrial catalog and drool over the seemingly endless possibilities. But remember, most "machine vision" is fixed distance, fixed focal length, and fixed aperture. But that the sheer siliness of it is that an actual groundglass is going to give you a bigger viewing surface, and without the optical penalty of a bunch of intermediate conversion. Makes sense if a robot camera is being sent into a hazardous location, but not for any normal application I can think of. It's all been done before anyway, at considerable expense. And of course, if you're going to bother will all that extra tech, why even shoot film rather than going straight to digital capture? Reminds me of a franchise model selling a completely automated and robotized method of making and selling pizzas. The equipment worked fine, but the pizzas tasted terrible!

 

[Luckless]

Just go to an Edmund Scientific Industrial catalog and drool over the seemingly endless possibilities. But remember, most "machine vision" is fixed distance, fixed focal length, and fixed aperture. But that the sheer siliness of it is that an actual groundglass is going to give you a bigger viewing surface, and without the optical penalty of a bunch of intermediate conversion. Makes sense if a robot camera is being sent into a hazardous location, but not for any normal application I can think of. It's all been done before anyway, at considerable expense. And of course, if you're going to bother will all that extra tech, why even shoot film rather than going straight to digital capture? Reminds me of a franchise model selling a completely automated and robotized method of making and selling pizzas. The equipment worked fine, but the pizzas tasted terrible!

You still haven't commented on what your suggested solution to actually SEEING the ground glass is, when the ground glass is in a position you can't get your head behind...

You know, the topic at hand in this thread? The thing being discussed?