Docter-Wetzlar 360mm f6.7 Tessar - What Can You Tell Me?

[Tom Stanworth]

I stumbled across a seemingly unusual lens. It is a brand new looking lens in a new Copal 3 and marked 'Docter-Wetzlar-Germany' and 'Tessar 3,6/360'.

When I looked into Docter lenses, most discussions were about the Germinar W series, especially the 150 and 240, but also the 300. I have seen a few references online to shorter, faster tessars, in the 180mm and 250mm focal lengths. I have only seen one reference to a person who has actually owned the 360 f6.7 tessar!

I have found some facts and figures giving a weight of about 950g (so about 500g lighter than a plasmat) and a 95mm front thread. The image circle was given as 420mm in Docter literature (supposedly) but some confusion arises because there was also reference to it having a 45 degree angle of coverage, which would mean a smaller image circle than that.

Can anyone comment on this lens, especially in use? It would appear to offer a considerably smaller alternative to a 360mm plasmat for use as a portrait lens on 8x10 and 5x7.

I'm not optimistic here and suspect I will get a deafening silence!

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Bump.

Really, nobody?

 

[John Austin]

Looks like it is up to you to buy it and write the definitive first article

If it is sensibly priced and your findings are good, or better still it has "interesting" image qualities you will be able to on-sell it here or at LFPF very easily and have learned something in the process

John

 

[ruilourosa]

you can get the 375mm ilex caltar for less and have a nice portrait lens, tessar design, not highly regarded but i have not had issues with it!

 

[Tom Stanworth]

I decided to buy it and will find out what its all about in due course. The price was right and there is no doubt this is a unique lens with some very appealing potential qualities. I very much liked the way my Rolleicord Xenar rendered portrait subjects at wide-ish apertures: deadly sharp on centre, but with a very gentle rendering overall (not remotely clinical).

Yes, a really clean 14" Ektar would have been slightly cheaper, but I'm not so keen on a giant Ilex/Acme type shutter when based in the UK, where they are very uncommon. Besides, this lens was not that much more expensive than a really clean example of that much older lens and judging by the write ups on the other Docter lenses, there is a good chance this lens is a wonderful performer.

When I get home I will shoot some test portraits and take it from there.

 

[John Austin]

I decided to buy it and will find out what its all about in due course

I am glad to read that - Please let us know your results, not that I am in the market, but I like real results, not the hearsay and supposition that often dilutes the value of the site

john

 

[Dan Fromm]

All, see http://www.arnecroell.com/docter.pdf

Tom, your prejudice against Commercial Ektars is incomprehensible. Your new treasure is an f/4.5 lens limited to f/6.7 by the shutter it is mounted in. f/6.3 tessars (that's the Commercial Ektar) are made to a different prescription that gives better coverage and image quality at the cost of a smaller maximum aperture.

Rui, the Ilex Caltar is a Commercial Ektar clone.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Prejudice means 'irrational preconceived ideas/notions' and I stated my considerations quite rationally

....I'd just rather use lenses in shutters that I can readily have serviced/exchanged in the UK and Europe, where American shutters are uncommon. I have other copal/compur shutters, so I know I will always be able to keep lenses shooting and enjoy commonality. Another factor is that I can use this lens on Linhof boards (meaning usage on the smaller cameras I have, not just 8x10). Can the same be said of a lens in an Ilex 5?

I thought this lens looked rather unique and well worth giving a go. I'm not worried about which design is 'better' as this is subjective and might not align with my needs.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

For those interested, here are some photos.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

If the Docter Tessar on my old Noblex is typical, then this should be a wonderful lens. I made some very sharp 8x enlargements form that camera.

 

[Susie Frith]

f/6.7 Tessar

Hi Tom,

I have some Kodak lenses: a 12" Ektar f/4.5, f/6.3 Commercial Ektars in both 12" and 14", and a 10" Wide Field, all in #4 or #5 Ilex self-cocking shutters. They have always been reliable and I haven't had any problem getting them serviced in the UK, so you need be worried on that count. I think because they are so big, the components are robust enough not to wear out too quickly - they just chug along at pretty slow speeds!

You are right in that, although they will just fit a 5x7 Technika lens board, they won't fit a 5x4 one, in fact I think the rear lens wouldn't fit through the hole in the panel mounting.

With a slight loss in maximum aperture, they could be mounted in a Copal #3, but the lens mounts would need to be new - so quite a lot of work. For my smaller cameras I just use lenses with a smaller max aperture that go in #3' Copals or Compounds.

Good luck with the Docter though.

Susie

 

[Ian Grant]

I think you've done well there Tom, probably about the best Tessar of that FL you could buy.

Your right about the large US shutters though as getting them fixed in the UK is a problem and they are heavy to post to the US (and back), I need to replace a Betax #5 and quite honestly it's cheaper to just buy another lens. Luckily my Illex shutters responded to a quick clean with Iso propyl alcohol and a fine 4/5 years on.

Ian

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Thanks for the contributions everyone. I hoped to stumble across someone who has owned and used this lens, but I guess I will be that person in the future!

Another consideration is top speed. Ilex 5s go up to 1/50, but I have heard many don't make that. If shooting natural light portraits outdoors, the higher speeds of a copal (or better still, compur 3) will prove very useful.

The performance of the other Docter lenses appears to be very good, so there is no reason to think this one will be a problem. Lets face it, German engineers are not know for their low standards and Docter has an impressive, albeit short, heritage.

I am hoping for 'gentle sharp.'