Do you use your favorite medium format lens to shoot digital?

[Alexander6x6]

With the moderator's permission I would like to start here the discussion about the experience with medium format lenses on modern digital cameras. It doesn't make much sense to start such kind of discussion in the digital section of this forum because the main reason people use MF lenses there is usually budget-related, not analog medium format legacy-related. I would rather hear the opinions of people who used their MF lenses for years before buying digital cameras.

My first medium-format camera was the Kiev-88. The heavily modified Hartblei 688 Master and Hartblei 1008 Studio Master cameras with Arsenal and CZJ lenses still work since 1998. In contrast, the focal plane shutter of the rarely used Hasselblad 201F, which was installed a couple of years ago, has recently broken.

It has always been my dream to use my favorite lenses, such as the Vega-28 120/2.8 or the Hartblei 150mm/2.8, for digital photography. Big sensors were always extremely expensive, and small ones didn't meet my expectations. The Fujifilm GFX 50s was the first affordable digital medium-format camera for me. Since then, I have used this camera with adapted lenses. I don't like the rendering of native Fuji lenses, which is why I only have the GF 63mm lens, which I use for snapshots.

 

[Hasslebad]

I used Hasselblad and Mamiya 7 lenses for years before getting a digital back for my Hasselblad when it became more affordable. I limit the digital backs for studio because of the amount of overhead needed between getting white balance set, sync cable applied etc. Also my studio work is more work related where tethering is helpful to get everything right.

For leisure or family photos, I prefer film since I get a look that I’m used to and it matches a lot of my earlier photos. It’s also easier in some ways (see sync cable and not having to worry about white balancing). That said, if I can spend the time to setup, I may take the digital backs out into the field.

 

[Hasslebad]

By the way, if I had GFX, I would consider the focal reducer adapter that allows using the Pentax Super Takumar 105mm f2.4. I think that lens has a beautiful rendering and being able to get that full field of view on a modern digital camera would be amazing.

 

[abruzzi]

Sure. I have a 6x9/6x7 view camera setup with a bunch of lenses that do double duty when I put a digital back on the camera. My investment in digital is somewhat limited so I can afford last generation Rodenstock digital, instead I use the film lenses I have available. It ranges from a 50mm/ƒ6.3 Mamiya on the wide end to a 150mm/ƒ9 Apo Ronar. I haven't yet had the need to go longer. My normal is a Nikkor-M 105mm/ƒ3.5. Its fairly long for a 6x4.5 sensor, but I lean long on my preferred lenses.

 

[Alexander6x6]

By the way, if I had GFX, I would consider the focal reducer adapter that allows using the Pentax Super Takumar 105mm f2.4. I think that lens has a beautiful rendering and being able to get that full field of view on a modern digital camera would be amazing.

Don't do it! The created image will be something else than the native 105mm. You will get swirly background with a bunch of chromatic aberrations. I have seen a number examples with this lens via reducer.

The focal reducer is simply the teleconverter that has been rotated 180 degrees.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I used Hasselblad and Mamiya 7 lenses for years before getting a digital back for my Hasselblad when it became more affordable. I limit the digital backs for studio because of the amount of overhead needed between getting white balance set, sync cable applied etc. Also my studio work is more work related where tethering is helpful to get everything right.

For leisure or family photos, I prefer film since I get a look that I’m used to and it matches a lot of my earlier photos. It’s also easier in some ways (see sync cable and not having to worry about white balancing). That said, if I can spend the time to setup, I may take the digital backs out into the field.

The new CFV 50c is just fine to take it into the field. The main advantage of this back that it can wait until the button on the camera is pressed, so no need to use the sync cable. The white balance is automatically adjusted.

I am struggling with the idea to modify it for my Hartblei cameras.

 

[abruzzi]

Yeah, I'd avoid adding optics like a focal reducer and just accept that most of your lenses are going to feel significantly longer on a digital body. I hate that everything except the obscenely expensive options has settled on the 44x33mm sensor. Thats smaller than any format using 120 film. Its not that I think bigger is better, just that smaller sensor means that my existing collection of lenses doesn't cover wide very well. My 50mm Mamiya is nice and wine on 6x9 or even 6x7, its moderately wide on 6x4.5. But on a 44x33 sensor it barely registers as wide.

My DB is pretty old, and CCD based so no usable live view, but it does have a 6x4.5 sensor, and takes very nice photos. For the price I paid I couldn't get any CMOS sensor, even a 44x33 one like the IQ1-50, but thats ok since I use the exact same process that I use for 6x9 and 6x7 focusing on a ground glass. (using an Arca Swiss 6x9 F-classic.)

 

[ic-racer]

Do you use your favorite medium format lens to shoot digital?

Why?

 

[Hasslebad]

Don't do it! The created image will be something else than the native 105mm. You will get swirly background with a bunch of chromatic aberrations. I have seen a number examples with this lens via reducer.

The focal reducer is simply the teleconverter that has been rotated 180 degrees.

Interesting. I didn’t know that. Thanks for the heads up. I may just have to bite the bullet and get a Pentax 67 to use the 105mm f2.4

 

[Pieter12]

I do with my Hy6 and the lenses designed for it. But most film lenses give disappointing results with digital sensors.

 

[koraks]

With the moderator's permission

Moderator note: we've decided to move this thread from its original location to a digital part of the forum. Since the discussion focuses specifically on digital capture, we feel this place appropriate. At the same time, we trust that people for whom this thread is relevant will find it anyway. We base this on the notion that many people browse the forum by perusing the 'new posts' list instead of checking each sub-forum separately. Conversely, people who do not appreciate digital discussions will not see this thread, which in the end will contribute to a more on-topic, focused discussion.

 

[Thwyllo]

I do with my Hy6 and the lenses designed for it. But most film lenses give disappointing results with digital sensors.

What do you mean by "disappointing"? What's your experience in this area?

I have a multitude of film lenses that I use on several different digital cameras and the results from virtually all range from "hard to see any noticeable difference" to "interesting"..... I've never had a "disappointing" result so unless your objections are deeply technical (bokeh on a russian-made kens for example) I'm interested to understand what you mean?

 

[Alexander6x6]

Yeah, I'd avoid adding optics like a focal reducer and just accept that most of your lenses are going to feel significantly longer on a digital body. I hate that everything except the obscenely expensive options has settled on the 44x33mm sensor. Thats smaller than any format using 120 film. Its not that I think bigger is better, just that smaller sensor means that my existing collection of lenses doesn't cover wide very well. My 50mm Mamiya is nice and wine on 6x9 or even 6x7, its moderately wide on 6x4.5. But on a 44x33 sensor it barely registers as wide.

This is exactly my feeling too. That's why I went for the shift adapters and ordered the customized 12x20mm dual shift adapter. With Mamiya 67 wide angle lens ULD 50mm I get up to 57x84 mm sensor size by stitching the parallax-free panorama. Here is an example of perspective corrected image of 33x84 mm sensor size (12mm up-shift + 20mm left-right shift):

My DB is pretty old, and CCD based so no usable live view, but it does have a 6x4.5 sensor, and takes very nice photos. For the price I paid I couldn't get any CMOS sensor, even a 44x33 one like the IQ1-50, but thats ok since I use the exact same process that I use for 6x9 and 6x7 focusing on a ground glass. (using an Arca Swiss 6x9 F-classic.)

Agree, it is very limited. My Eyelike M22 (later distributed as Sinar M 54) can be used only with the Macbook attached.

 

[abruzzi]

This is exactly my feeling too. That's why I went for the shift adapters and ordered the customized 12x20mm dual shift adapter. With Mamiya 67 wide angle lens ULD 50mm I get up to 57x84 mm sensor size by stitching the parallax-free panorama. Here is an example of perspective corrected image of 33x84 mm sensor size (12mm up-shift + 20mm left-right shift):

I've never actually tried shifting. I could easily do it as-is since my digital setup is a Phase One P65+ (BTW, Capture integration has one for $2k at the moment) mounted on a Arca Swiss F-classic 6x9, so I should try it out. F-metric would be easier, but its still doable with what I have.

The other thing is genuine wides can cause color shifts if tilted or shifted, and you need to take a "LCC" shot to have the software undo it. SLR wides don't usually have that problem since they are almost always retrofocal, and the light comes in fairly perpendicualr to the sensor.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I would highly recommend Mamiya ULD 50 or maybe M 65, which is also ULD. Amazing colors, sharpness and contrast. Zero visual chromatic aberration even at maximum shift. The Distagon 40 IF is also very good lens, but quite expensive.

 

[abruzzi]

I would highly recommend Mamiya ULD 50 or maybe M 65, which is also ULD. Amazing colors, sharpness and contrast. Zero visual chromatic aberration even at maximum shift. The Distagon 40 IF is also very good lens, but quite expensive.

I have a unknown lensboard that mounts RB/RZ lenses, but I haven't had a chance to move the mount pieces from the odd 118mm lensboard to an Arca 110 board. Once I do that I'll check out a few lenses from that system.

 

[benveniste]

With the moderator's permission I would like to start here the discussion about the experience with medium format lenses on modern digital cameras.

I've used the Pentax 120mm f/4 645 Macro lens on a Nikon D800 a couple of times. But to be honest, my Pentax 645->Nikon F is among my least used "bits," because I find no real advantage in using any of the lenses. I had hoped the 135mm LF would function as a leaf shutter lens on the adapter, but, alas, it does not.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I have a unknown lensboard that mounts RB/RZ lenses, but I haven't had a chance to move the mount pieces from the odd 118mm lensboard to an Arca 110 board. Once I do that I'll check out a few lenses from that system.

I don't know how else it could be realized with the stopping down, but I would also recommend the DOF preview lever bracket from Hartblei (available at Ebay).

 

[Alexander6x6]

I've used the Pentax 120mm f/4 645 Macro lens on a Nikon D800 a couple of times. But to be honest, my Pentax 645->Nikon F is among my least used "bits," because I find no real advantage in using any of the lenses. I had hoped the 135mm LF would function as a leaf shutter lens on the adapter, but, alas, it does not.

You would immediately see the great advantage of the MF macro lens as soon you would be able to tilt it.

 

[abruzzi]

I don't know how else it could be realized with the stopping down, but I would also recommend the DOF preview lever bracket from Hartblei (available at Ebay).

I'm not sure about aperture, not having a lens, but there are controls on board I have to cock the shutter. With RB/RZ lenses does the lens close the aperture to the selected value when removed from the body? Most 35mm SLR lenses, when not mounted, fall back to the selected aperture, but my Bronica lenses stay wide open when off the body.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I'm not sure about aperture, not having a lens, but there are controls on board I have to cock the shutter. With RB/RZ lenses does the lens close the aperture to the selected value when removed from the body? Most 35mm SLR lenses, when not mounted, fall back to the selected aperture, but my Bronica lenses stay wide open when off the body.

I don't have Mamiya 67 body. It is sufficient to manually cock the shutter. At this stage I put it onto my adapter using the DOF bracket for stopping down the aperture. On the Mamiya body the aperture will automatically close shortly before the shutter will fire.

 

[Alexander6x6]

here is the trial what one can get with the Mamiya ULD 50/4.5 using 20x20mm dual shift adapter for stitching panorama on Fujifilm GFX 50s. I have experimentally determined the 100mm image circle of this lens. Because I put the building very closed to the right side, one can see that this lens is one of the widest angle lenses for 6x7 system. It still performs very good near the vignetting area (see the 100% crop)

 

[reddesert]

I'm not sure about aperture, not having a lens, but there are controls on board I have to cock the shutter. With RB/RZ lenses does the lens close the aperture to the selected value when removed from the body? Most 35mm SLR lenses, when not mounted, fall back to the selected aperture, but my Bronica lenses stay wide open when off the body.

I can't speak to the digital camera question, but I'm pretty sure Mamiya RB lenses do not stop down the aperture when removed - most leaf shutter SLR lenses will be full open when cocked. However most or all RB67 lenses have a DOF preview lever on the lens that you can use to stop down the aperture and that might be wedgable in the closed position (I think that's what the Hartblei bracket mentioned above does). I don't know about RZ. Mamiya M645 lenses have an M-A switch for DOF preview that will stay in the M position.

Bronica leaf shutter lenses have a DOF preview button that would not be as easy to keep closed. I have a Bronica ETR to 35mm adapter somewhere, but I forget how it dealt with this issue.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I can't speak to the digital camera question, but I'm pretty sure Mamiya RB lenses do not stop down the aperture when removed - most leaf shutter SLR lenses will be full open when cocked. However most or all RB67 lenses have a DOF preview lever on the lens that you can use to stop down the aperture and that might be wedgable in the closed position (I think that's what the Hartblei bracket mentioned above does). I don't know about RZ. Mamiya M645 lenses have an M-A switch for DOF preview that will stay in the M position.

Bronica leaf shutter lenses have a DOF preview button that would not be as easy to keep closed. I have a Bronica ETR to 35mm adapter somewhere, but I forget how it dealt with this issue.

Regarding aperture the RZ lenses are exactly the same as RB lenses. There is the 180/4.5 SOFT lens for RZ67, where the DOF preview lever can be locked. It is needed to help focusing this lens at f8, because it is almost impossible to do wide open.

 

[abruzzi]

I can't speak to the digital camera question, but I'm pretty sure Mamiya RB lenses do not stop down the aperture when removed - most leaf shutter SLR lenses will be full open when cocked. However most or all RB67 lenses have a DOF preview lever on the lens that you can use to stop down the aperture and that might be wedgable in the closed position (I think that's what the Hartblei bracket mentioned above does). I don't know about RZ. Mamiya M645 lenses have an M-A switch for DOF preview that will stay in the M position.

Bronica leaf shutter lenses have a DOF preview button that would not be as easy to keep closed. I have a Bronica ETR to 35mm adapter somewhere, but I forget how it dealt with this issue.

Then it seems the best medium format lenses to adapt to a different system are the Pentax lenses. I don't know the 645, but the 67 has a slide on all the lenses to stop down and it will stay in either position.