Do you think it is a fake set of Lee Filters?

Arturo Carmona · Sep 6, 2020

Hello!
I have recently bought a second hand set of LEE graduated ND´s. The thing is that it seems a little bit magentas to my eye and a little bit yellowish at the clear side.
It also has the LEE ND.3(6 and 9) S G inscription from LEE at the bottom right hand side and nothing at the other corner.

I have noticed that other LEE filters are designated as LEE ND 3 SOFT (MEDIUM or HARD) instead and some numerology at the opposite corner (11/15). Even I have seen inscription like mines but with the numerology at the other corner (03/15 or 02/15).

What is the difference between thme and more important, are fake mines? Thank you guys!

AgX · Sep 7, 2020

Arturo Carmona said:
The thing is that it seems a little bit magentas to my eye and a little bit yellowish at the clear side.
It also has the LEE ND.3(6 and 9) S G inscription from LEE at the bottom right hand side and nothing at the other corner.

A filter to be placed in the optical path (thus not just for lighting) must have a smooth surface on boths sides.
Or is there a misunderstanding of your wording?

Maybe you mean a slightest roughness as in emulsion side versus base side at a film-strip (different sheen).
This then may indicate that the filter is made from a dyed-gelatin coated film (there are different methods imaginable of making gelatin filters).
Or you mean that you even can see that it is a sandwhich with one side the fully transparent base and the other side a dyed layer.
Anyway, Lee however make their filters from thoroughly dyed plastic. Thus homogeneous and same sheen on both sides.

Unless LEE abandoned this practice just for their ND filters.
(I only have their colour filters.)

Arturo Carmona · Sep 7, 2020

AgX said:
A filter to be placed in the optical path (thus not just for lighting) must have a smooth surface on boths sides.
Or is there a misunderstanding of your wording?

Maybe you mean a slightest roughness as in emulsion side versus base side at a film-strip (different sheen).
This then may indicate that the filter is made from a dyed-gelatin coated film (there are different methods imaginable of making gelatin filters).
Or you mean that you even can see that it is a sandwhich with one side the fully transparent base and the other side a dyed layer.
Anyway, Lee however make their filters from thoroughly dyed plastic. Thus homogeneous and same sheen on both sides.

Unless LEE abandoned this practice just for their ND filters.
(I only have their colour filters.)

Hi! Thank you for your reply! As far as I always learnt, graduated ND must not have any color tint in order to be neutral in color and just to affect light exposure. Said that, I don't know if Lee filters can be made in different ways so the marks on the filter can differ from one to another. There are some elements that make me mistrust on it:

1. The yellowish and warm tint a long the filter.
2. The LEE marks that does not include the appropiate numerology from lee at the bottom left hand side corner.
3. Not rounded corner as LEE filters get us used to.

https://ibb.co/dG01Xm4
https://ibb.co/cDTrRkz
https://ibb.co/BzCyCW5

I leave you some photos so you can judge. Thank you!

itsdoable · Sep 7, 2020

1st of all, I don't have any Lee filters.

B&H listing show Lee filters with the same labeling as you have, the "S" at the end means "Soft" (... of course, those could be fake too..).

Lee graduated filters are made from dyed through poly-carbonate resin. The yellow tinge may be aging. As these are used, you may have some earlier production version that account for the differences, you can always ask Lee themselves.

They also make dyed through glass and thin film glass filters, depending on the intended effect. Their big stopper has a designed in blue cast to counter IR sensitivity in digital sensors.

GLS · Sep 7, 2020

They look like fakes to me.

I have 5 Lee grad NDs, ranging in strength from 0.6 (two stops) to 1.2 (4 stops). None of them have any colour cast discernable to the eye in either the clear or the stained part of the filter, and I have never heard of Lee filters tinting with age either. The middle one of the three you posted images of has such an extreme colour in the stain that I assume it must be deliberate (a tobacco grad or similar). Secondly, genuine Lee filters have the following printed on them (with characters made up of yellow dots):

Top right corner: LEE xND G S/H
(for example: LEE .9ND G H)

Top left corner: the date of manufacture in MM/YY format.

These markings are on the same face of the filter, and there should be no more or less. The pictures you posted have just the filter type printed on them, but not only that, the printing is in a different place (genuine filters have the printing closer to the corner). See the following for an example:

edit: I gather (as you mentioned in the OP) that more recent versions of the Lee grads omit the "G" part of the label, and fully spell out the filter category (soft, medium, hard, very hard, reverse, etc). However notice they still have the date of manufacture on them, like so:

Paul Howell · Sep 7, 2020

I have Lee and Colin ND filters, none have any color cast, for that matter I have ND filters from unnamed Chinese firm still no color cast.

Arturo Carmona · Sep 7, 2020

OK guys, let's see if Lee can add light to this. I will share their opinion when they answer. Thank you all!!

Arturo Carmona · Sep 8, 2020

I want to share some quick tests I have made with them to know your opinion while Lee filters answer my email. The test has been made without a tripod and holding the filters in front of the lens by hand (really close to it), so I know it is not the perfect situation but it is just a quick test I will repeat in proper conditions next week. The test has been made the next way:

1. Without any filter - https://ibb.co/4g9WZ7f
2. ND3 full clear side - https://ibb.co/g7rcBpL
3. ND3 full ND side + f compensate - https://ibb.co/FnxmhTr
4. ND6 full clear side - https://ibb.co/G3rPGvq
5. ND6 full ND side + f compensate - https://ibb.co/0f1D47x
6. ND9 full clear side - https://ibb.co/XkFkH3h
7. ND9 full ND side + f compensate - https://ibb.co/J23cqF7

Not noticiable changes in sharpness.

AgX · Sep 8, 2020

Arturo Carmona said:
Not noticiable changes in sharpness.

Did anyone expect a loss?

Arturo Carmona · Sep 8, 2020

AgX said:
Did anyone expect a loss?

As far as I know when using filters, it depends on the quality of it but usually you may get certain loss in definition terms as you are putting a glass or a resin surface in front of the lens. I may be wrong.

AgX · Sep 8, 2020

You are right. But such effect may be too small to be identified in your set.up. Basically the surfaces of filter panes must be optically parallel, with glass filters this is achieved by grinding and polishing. With plastic (resin) filters it depends. The thinner the lesser any effect, thick panes however should have the same parallelity as their glass counterparts. The manufacture of thick resin panes however differs from glass panes.

You did not say whether your filters have the density as designated.

By the way, only just now I realized what you mean by "clear" side. Please think about your terminology. Your filters are clear all-over.

Arturo Carmona · Sep 8, 2020

AgX said:
You did not say whether your filters have the density as designated.

By the way, only just now I realized what you mean by "clear" side. Please think about your terminology. Your filters are clear all-over.

Sorry for that! I come from a cinematography background and there clear filters are those which does not apply any effect, just clear glass for preventing the lens from scratches or splashes when there is risk for that. For that reason I used Clear as terminology to determine the side of the filter which is supposed to have no effect.

On the other hand, do you notice the warm cast when applying the filters?? What do you think about that? Does Lee filters apply some color cast like these?

Thanks!

AgX · Sep 8, 2020

You made a good point. I already realized that cinematographers and still photographer use different terminology.-

Concerning that colour cast, the best explanation to me is light fading. But such filters are typically stored away. And following that fake theory, one might think that just cheap gradation filters at hand got fake designations. But would someone buy those then with that cast? Well, you did...
But I assume you knew beforehand. I myself bought a lot of "junk", but at price I thought a bargain for what I thought that stuff would nevertheless be useful for.

Arturo Carmona · Sep 8, 2020

AgX said:
You made a good point. I already realized that cinematographers and still photographer use different terminology.-

Concerning that colour cast, the best explanation to me is light fading. But such filters are typically stored away. And following that fake theory, one might think that just cheap gradation filters at hand got fake designations. But would someone buy those then with that cast? Well, you did...
But I assume you knew beforehand. I myself bought a lot of "junk", but at price I thought a bargain for what I thought that stuff would nevertheless be useful for.

Yes you are right. I took a risk buying it from a second hand seller and I do not complain about that, just want to know if there is some kind of knowledge out there that can prove those are not originals in order to learn about it!! For instance, does other Lee graduated filters produce this warm cast?? I have heard that all filters whatever their price produce slightly casting. Is it true? Thanks!

MattKing · Sep 8, 2020

Could these be intended as combination gradient and warming filters?

AgX · Sep 8, 2020

If they were true than they were not designated all "ND".

Arturo Carmona · Sep 8, 2020

MattKing said:
Could these be intended as combination gradient and warming filters?

If it was that way I think It should have some kind of labeling according to that.

itsdoable · Sep 8, 2020

From the Lee site - might explain the colour cast. They list coral graduated and sepia graduated filters as well.

AgX · Sep 8, 2020

Yes, but LEE would not call them just "ND". I mean, they even put G(rad) on it, though this is obvious.

itsdoable · Sep 8, 2020

Oh, I agree. They look faded (though that's a little difficult to determine over photos), and I don't think Lee would use dyes and resin that fade like that. And that Coral-like filter is labelled "ND" but does not look neutral to me. But one never knows what those filters have been through...

AgX · Sep 9, 2020

We shall have to wait for a reply from Lee. And in case they call them fakes, we still would not know why those got a cast, thus whether filters were taken that had a cast by choice from the start or whether a once neutral tone faded inhomogeneously over the spectrum.

Arturo Carmona · Sep 9, 2020

I have found this article on Haida´s website where a photographer makes a review and compare a new haida filter with his old lee filters. He said the next:

Compared to my Lee 0.9 soft grad resin filter, the Haida Red-Diamond glass filter does not exhibit any colour casts at first glance, whereas the brownish cast on the Lee filter is very apparent from the photo above. That said, I have been using my Lee filter for years, and the brownish discolouration could be due to age. The use of glass as opposed to resin for Haida's filter products should also yield a more resilient filter which should not discolour with age.

Article link: https://www.haidaphoto.com/en/evaluation001-313.html

AgX · Sep 9, 2020

There are no gradient filters in minerally coloured glass, at least not practically, technicallly it is feasible, though not with a soft edge. So a glass filter of that kind would be a sandwhich containing an organic sheet that got density most likely by an organic dye. And these are basically underlying fading by light.

GLS · Sep 9, 2020

Arturo Carmona said:
I have found this article on Haida´s website where a photographer makes a review and compare a new haida filter with his old lee filters. He said the next:

Compared to my Lee 0.9 soft grad resin filter, the Haida Red-Diamond glass filter does not exhibit any colour casts at first glance, whereas the brownish cast on the Lee filter is very apparent from the photo above. That said, I have been using my Lee filter for years, and the brownish discolouration could be due to age. The use of glass as opposed to resin for Haida's filter products should also yield a more resilient filter which should not discolour with age.

Article link: https://www.haidaphoto.com/en/evaluation001-313.html

Again, I strongly suspect the "Lee" filter in this image is a fake. Look how far from the corner the model lettering is compared with the two genuine examples I posted. I have never heard of genuine Lee resin filters browning with age this extremely.

The fact that this comparison appears on the website of the competitor brand means it should be treated with even more caution.

AgX · Sep 9, 2020

GLS said:
Again, I strongly suspect the "Lee" filter in this image is a fake. Look how far from the corner the model lettering is compared with the two genuine examples I posted.

Seen the way they are printed, the lettering may easily change position towards the edge. But also a change in position could have been intended.
Here a Lee filter still in their plant.

Do you think it is a fake set of Lee Filters?

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