Do you crop your photos?

[Sirius Glass]

Move in closer and you will not have to think about needing to crop.

 

[Bill Burk]

Why? It was for Cartier-Bresson, and that, iteration, and hasn't been for a whole bunch of great photographers since.

My comment was incompletely thought out. Your observation is more interesting than what I said.

I enjoy when people describe the geometry of a photo I admire. But you’re right it’s not essential.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Slide show can be and are interesting if one sorts the slides down to the most interesting and even better if it builds a story.

 

[bluechromis]

I frequently crop and sometimes a lot. I do a fair amount of candid and street photography where there often isn't time to make perfect framing. With candid portraits, too often in the past, I later realized that I cut off someones' hands or feet. So now I strive to give a good cushion of space around the main subject to ensure I didn't cut off anything. The biggest problem for me with cropping in 35 mm is that at a certain point the grain gets really heavy. I like the tonality of Tri-X. But for 35 mm street photography, I usually go for Tmax 400 because its finer grain is more forgiving of cropping. The ability to crop without undermining image quality might be an argument for medium format. I understand that Garry Winogrand said one should not crop, but am not sure why. So I ignore his advice.

 

[Mike Lopez]

On the other hand I have seen some nicely-composed prints that bore the hell out of me, the lighting might be flat, the subject matter ordinary and ordinarily photographed, the image just unappealing. But it was composed carefully in camera and not cropped in printing.

That would point to a lack of vision more than anything else discussed in this thread.

 

[Mike Lopez]

...or are making contact prints...

Bingo.

 

[Mike Lopez]

There are too many mentions of HCB in this thread for me to keep straight anymore. Has anyone read his introduction to The Decisive Moment?

 

[Sirius Glass]

There are too many mentions of HCB in this thread for me to keep straight anymore. Has anyone read his introduction to The Decisive Moment?

What Mike? Bring reality into a discussion about HCB?

 

[Bill Burk]

There are too many mentions of HCB in this thread for me to keep straight anymore. Has anyone read his introduction to The Decisive Moment?

I got this big old book, think he said anything relevant in it?

 

[bluechromis]

The idea there ever was a taboo about cropping is one of these too oft repeated myth.

If he did, in 1946, a lot of others were too, and still are:
Well said!

 

[bluechromis]

View attachment 295679

Ha, ha!

 

[Sirius Glass]

To be fair he could not have moved in closer without getting whacked on the head by the woman thinking that he wanted to look or photograph up her dress.

 

[Bill Burk]

That big book about HCB did mention cropping.

P36 note 34. André Pieyre de Mandiargues, ‘Henri Cartier-Bresson, le grand revelateur’.

“If you start cutting or cropping a good photograph, it means death…”

 

[bluechromis]

For those that claim that the "real artist" is able to perfectly frame images in the camera and those that can't are not up to scratch, I would ask where is the proof of that? Are we expected to accept this as a quasi-religious statement as an article of faith that does not require objective evidence? Isn't the ultimate product, the final print, the most important thing regardless of how the artist arrived at it? If that assertion less cropping equals artistic merit is correct then there ought to be a tight correlation between the degree of cropping and the artistic merit of the ultimate image. I think if we look at those that are considered the great masters in photography, we would find, as usual, that they are all over the place in terms of their practices with cropping. They are using widely varied methods to achieve their artistic goals.

 

[Vaughn]

Pieter12,

That’s the crux. Nobody will care. The photographer/artist might care. Isn't that who is the most important?
...
Cropping is the surest way to beautiful prints. WTF?!

...

 

[Vaughn]

For those that claim that the "real artist" is able to perfectly frame images in the camera and those that can't are not up to scratch, I would ask where is the proof of that? ....

Actually, no one here has said that...

However, it seems that some believe that if one does not crop, one is missing out on something...who knows what...

 

[mshchem]

Smaller, non-Americans can get away with in your face street photography.

If I got that close to some unsuspecting person I would be flogged.

 

[Pieter12]

That big book about HCB did mention cropping.

P36 note 34. André Pieyre de Mandiargues, ‘Henri Cartier-Bresson, le grand revelateur’.

“If you start cutting or cropping a good photograph, it means death…”

That means starting with a good photo. Not that the photo has to be perfect in the viewfinder.

 

[bluechromis]

Actually, no one here has said that...

However, it seems that some believe that if one does not crop, one is missing out on something...who knows what...

Wel,l Sirius said this which seems rather close to it: "No, smart photographers walk around the area while taking the photographs so they can see the subjects from various views and angles. In the process they will see beyond the initial composition because they are actively looking to improve their work. If that is done correctly, there should be no need to slice and dice in the darkroom. But then that is what is considered smart photographic practices. Hoping to do better in the darkroom after one quick look is just short selling oneself." Is that not saying that if one knows what they are doing there is no need to crop?

 

[Pieter12]

Smaller, non-Americans can get away with in your face street photography.

If I got that close to some unsuspecting person I would be flogged.

Tell that to Bruce Gilden.

 

[Vaughn]

Wel,l Sirius said this which seems rather close to it: ...

Close, yes, but all he is saying it is an excellent skill to work on. And a smart individual is always looking for ways to improve.

Cropping is an easy skill to work on...one just needs a full-frame print and a couple of "Ls". Non-cropping can take more effort to learn as most of it takes place behind the camera.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

There are too many mentions of HCB in this thread for me to keep straight anymore. Has anyone read his introduction to The Decisive Moment?

For those who haven't, and who are interested, here's a chunk of it:

“I kept walking the streets, high-strung, and eager to snap scenes of convincing reality, but mainly I wanted to capture the quintessence of the phenomenon in a single image. Photographing, for me, is instant drawing, and the secret is to forget you are carrying a camera.

Manufactured or staged photography does not concern me. And if I make judgment it can only be on a psychological or sociological level. There are those who take photographs arranged beforehand and those who go out to discover the image and seize it. For me the camera is a sketchbook, an instrument of intuition and spontaneity, the master of the instant which, in visual terms, questions and decides simultaneously. In order to “give a meaning” to the world, one has to feel oneself involved in what one frames through the viewfinder. This attitude requires concentration, a discipline of mind, sensitivity, and a sense of geometry—it is by great economy of means that one arrives at simplicity of expression. One must always take photographs with the greatest respect for the subject and for oneself.

To take photographs is to hold one’s breath when all faculties converge in the face of fleeing reality. It is at that moment that mastering an image becomes a great physical and intellectual joy.

To take photographs means to recognize—simultaneously and within a fraction of a second—both the fact itself and the rigorous organization of visually perceived forms that give it meaning. It is putting one’s head, one’s eye, and one’s heart on the same axis.

As far as I am concerned, taking photographs is a means of understanding which cannot be separated from other means of visual expression. It is a way of shouting, of freeing oneself, not of proving or asserting one’s originality. It is a way of life.”

 

[Bill Burk]

That means starting with a good photo. Not that the photo has to be perfect in the viewfinder.

It does sound like he starts with a good print and doesn’t want anyone to ruin it. Life Magazine had to crop a lot of pictures because photographers didn’t often hold their cameras in portrait orientation, but all the pages of the magazine were.

He went on to say you can’t save a weak composition in the darkroom by cropping.

I agree with you that a photographer may envision a good composition that doesn’t fill the rangefinder. So a good print may be intentionally cropped.

We know HCB strove for perfect composition in the viewfinder. Paradoxically Derriere la Gare Saint-Lazare was cropped severely. (Ansel Adams strove for proper exposure, but Moonrise, Hernandez was underexposed).

It’s not unfair to say HCB was against cropping.

It’s ok to support cropping.

I don’t like cropping, and Vaughn is right. I say nobody cares but it’s closer to the truth to say that I care. When it comes to my work.

When it comes to your work I support your choice. I want to encourage photographers to crop.

 

[Mike Lopez]

For those who haven't, and who are interested, here's a chunk of it:

“I kept walking the streets, high-strung, and eager to snap scenes of convincing reality, but mainly I wanted to capture the quintessence of the phenomenon in a single image. Photographing, for me, is instant drawing, and the secret is to forget you are carrying a camera.

Manufactured or staged photography does not concern me. And if I make judgment it can only be on a psychological or sociological level. There are those who take photographs arranged beforehand and those who go out to discover the image and seize it. For me the camera is a sketchbook, an instrument of intuition and spontaneity, the master of the instant which, in visual terms, questions and decides simultaneously. In order to “give a meaning” to the world, one has to feel oneself involved in what one frames through the viewfinder. This attitude requires concentration, a discipline of mind, sensitivity, and a sense of geometry—it is by great economy of means that one arrives at simplicity of expression. One must always take photographs with the greatest respect for the subject and for oneself.

To take photographs is to hold one’s breath when all faculties converge in the face of fleeing reality. It is at that moment that mastering an image becomes a great physical and intellectual joy.

To take photographs means to recognize—simultaneously and within a fraction of a second—both the fact itself and the rigorous organization of visually perceived forms that give it meaning. It is putting one’s head, one’s eye, and one’s heart on the same axis.

As far as I am concerned, taking photographs is a means of understanding which cannot be separated from other means of visual expression. It is a way of shouting, of freeing oneself, not of proving or asserting one’s originality. It is a way of life.”

Alex, I was just about to reply to Bill and Sirius by saying that your post above does a good job of summarizing the HCB views. But you got there first. You seem very knowledgeable about him. Did you formally study him and/or his work? It’s refreshing to read posts from someone who has done their homework, so to speak.

Edit: by “your post above,” I’m referring to #172.

 

[Sirius Glass]

For those that claim that the "real artist" is able to perfectly frame images in the camera and those that can't are not up to scratch, I would ask where is the proof of that? Are we expected to accept this as a quasi-religious statement as an article of faith that does not require objective evidence? Isn't the ultimate product, the final print, the most important thing regardless of how the artist arrived at it? If that assertion less cropping equals artistic merit is correct then there ought to be a tight correlation between the degree of cropping and the artistic merit of the ultimate image. I think if we look at those that are considered the great masters in photography, we would find, as usual, that they are all over the place in terms of their practices with cropping. They are using widely varied methods to achieve their artistic goals.

I did not say or claim that "the "real artist" is able to perfectly frame images in the camera and those that can't are not up to scratch", however since some have come to the conclusion that statement is a fact, I would like to thank them for thinking of me as a real artist. Thank you. <<wink wink>>