Do Jobo tanks and reels go bad?

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2008

David;

It is not a camera problem as the density is lower and extends into the edge markings. It is not a coating defect as far as I can see. My only guess would be as Bill said earlier about bubbles or my idea that it may be the reels, but I have no idea. I would have gone with the bubble theory, but the marks are so large. Sorry.

PE

david b · Mar 28, 2008

Two different cameras. Two different films.

Same tank and same reels.

Arvee · Mar 28, 2008

David,

This may be a longshot but I once mixed developer in container that was thoroughly washed and cleaned but once contained ethylene glycol. Apparently the chemical leached out of the plastic and contaminated the developer in such a way that it caused striations across the film that were about 1/2" long and separated by about 1/2". They looked like long versions of your problem.

I got some brown glass jugs and have never seen the problem again.

I would mix a fresh batch of developer in case something strange got tossed in when you prepared the developer, perhaps an oily substance got into the developer and floats to the top and sticks to the film, preventing development.

Fred

david b · Mar 28, 2008

Thanks Fred. I will try that.

I have separate, 1 liter plastic bottles that I use for only xtol. Nothing else has ever been in them.

This is also my second batch of xtol, mixed with distilled water, and the problems continue.

Maybe I need to try another brand of water?

Ed Sukach · Mar 28, 2008

One cleaning agent I've found to be *very useful* in cleaning JOBO reels is toothpaste - ordinary toothpaste, with its mild abrasive. I've used Tom's of Maine, but most any other will do.

Also good for removing minor stains from Tilly hats.

david b · Mar 28, 2008

Crap. I only have Colgate.

Just kidding.

So I spent the morning soaking the reels in a tub of 130 degree water and Mrs. Meyers All Purpose Cleaner.

I scrubbed them again and then let them soak another couple of hours of in plain hot water.

I cannot seem anything on them nor do I expect to.

In the mean time, I shot another roll of Acros and will have a friend develop it in his own
tanks and with his own, different chemistry.

I'll let you all know.

And again, I sincerely appreciate all the time and energy spent by you all to help me with my problem.

A sincere thanks.

david b · Mar 31, 2008

The problems continue.

So I just ordered new Paterson tanks and reels. I did this because I asked a friend to develop
a roll in his Paterson tank, with his Paterson reels, and all is well.

Not sure what else to do.

TimVermont · Mar 31, 2008

The essential oils in Mrs. Meyer's products (http://www.mrsmeyers.com/SubCategoryDetail.aspx?CategoryId=34cdd15f-77e6-41ac-baf3-99b400f10b0c) are probably only a trivial quantity, but not something you want on your reels or carrying over into your developer. I hope the Patterson's solve your problem.

Jon King · Mar 31, 2008

David,

I have had the same problems with Paterson tanks/reels. The light density areas look very similar, which makes tight framing very problematic (read - ruins the negative ). I've tried: changing developer (Pyrocat HD to D76)...Cleaning... Hot bleach... plenty of toothbrush scrubbing too... none of it has worked either. I have several tanks, so I am thinking of purchasing a new reel, to see if my reels or tanks are contaminated. All of this is on 120 film - 35mm film works fine on the same reels and tanks.

In the mean time, I picked up some used SS tanks and reels, and........ no problem!! I have no idea whether it has to do with the shape of the rails on the reels (circular vs. square) or the material (SS vs. plastic), but I can again develop without marks. And that is a very good thing

david b said:
The problems continue.

So I just ordered new Paterson tanks and reels. I did this because I asked a friend to develop
a roll in his Paterson tank, with his Paterson reels, and all is well.

Not sure what else to do.

Photo Engineer · Mar 31, 2008

Well, as I said, many years using Jobo, SS and old Ansco and Kodak tanks and no problem.

PE

david b · Mar 31, 2008

I've used the same tank and reels for the last 7 or 8 years with no problem.

Then WHAMO!!!!

Can't figure it out.

So, what's another $50 ? I've already wasted probably 20 of Acros, a couple of HP5+ and even one APX 100.

It's only money, right.

And time.

j_landecker · Mar 31, 2008

I had this problem with Paterson reels and Pyrocat HD, which seemed to create a lot of foam during inversions - by the end of development there was always so much foam that the developer could hardly move (the wetting agent step has always been done outside the tank). I tried pre-soaking and a gentler agitation technique with no success. Admittedly, I could have been more thorough in narrowing down the cause of this, but I recently "rediscovered" D-76 and and, as well as liking the results, my bubble problem has disappeared...

Jim

Andrew Moxom · Mar 31, 2008

David, at this point, and with out much more to lose, I would try 50:50 bleach and HOT WATER, a toothbrush, and or one of those small green scotch/3M cleaning pads for washing dishes(WITHOUT THE SOAP!!!) before you buy paterson tanks. I know bleach is not JOBO recommended, but I had this problem with Paterson tanks and reels too. I would STAY AWAY from dishsoap also as it's very similar to wetting agent!!! The green cleaning pad and bleach solution will scuff off the crud in the reels. Rinse with just very hot water and let dry. It should end your problem.

I would also clean out your JOBO tank the same way also! It could be that the contaminate is in there too.

david b · Mar 31, 2008

andrew,
I will give it a shot.

I am home for the next few days as I have just had some major dental work this morning,
and need to get off the couch.

I bought the Paterson locally and can return it if I need to.

So tomorrow, I will try the hot water and bleach and will see what happens.

And again, thanks for all of the responses. They are truly appreciated.

david b · Apr 1, 2008

Okay....

now the reels and tanks have been soaked and scrubbed in 50/50 bleach and water, using a firm tooth brush and then soaked in hot water for about 30 minutes.

I am going to mix another bag of xtol that I just purchased from Freestyle, using bottled water.

Wish me luck.

Andrew Moxom · Apr 3, 2008

Fingers crossed David. I hope the problems are fixed now?

david b · Apr 7, 2008

Developed two rolls of Acros 100 in xtol 1+1 using a brand new Paterson tank and two brand new Paterson reels.

The problems f+cking continue.

Sorry for the language but I am frustrated beyond believe.

Could the xtol be bubbling inside and sticking to the film?
I've tried tap water.
I've tried distilled water.

Nothing.

Photo Engineer · Apr 7, 2008

David;

Something changed and it appears it was not the reels. Yes, bubbles and contaminants in the water can do this. You say distilled water but let me give you a story.

I was in Montana giving a workshop and nothing worked the first day. I tried everything and it just would not work. The coatings were awful, but the emulsion was ok.

It turned out that the lab was used the week before by Sandy King for carbon printing, and the tiny amount of oil in the carbon glop had gotten onto some of the trays in the sink. Even though we used DW for everything that tiny oily residue did us in! So, we washed every piece of equipment with soap and water and the problem went away, but still we had a tiny hint. If we went into other areas and picked up some residue in other labs, enough stuck to our fingers to cause blemishes.

Who knew? I should have but didn't suspect it and Sandy and his class had left the lab sparkling clean to all appeances. It was probably just a drop or two.

I had the same problem in my lab here for 2 weeks. I could not coat anything and suddenly the problem vanished. This was about a year ago. I've never had it again, and hope I never do. Some mysteries cannot be solved. I would guess though that a good lab cleanup of everything with detergent and then with hot water might move things in the right direction.

Good luck.

PE

MattKing · Apr 7, 2008

David:

Do you wear gloves when you load the reels? Could the problems be coming from how you are handling the film or what is on your skin while handling the film? Is the spacing of the marks different with the Paterson reels as compared to the Jobo, or is it identical?

Just throwing out some guesses.

Matt

david b · Apr 7, 2008

I have scrubbed and bleached the reels. The problem just about went away with a tiny hint of it left.

I do not wear gloves. Never had to. The problem is recent.

The marks are the same in the Paterson as they are in the Jobo.

I use stainless steel graduates. Could something be happening there?

Uhner · Apr 7, 2008

This must be very frustrating. Forgive me if I’m pointing out something that might be obvious. I know you cleaned your reels and tanks in very hot water and that you cleaned your reels with All Purpose Cleaner – but did you clean the tanks with this as well?

The reason that I mention this is that I always cleaned my reels and tanks in plain hot water for years until I encountered a similar problem like the one you have now. Like I wrote earlier on the thread; my problem went away after I thoroughly cleaned the tanks and the reels with washing up liquid. I did not emphasize that I gave my tanks, lids, rods and reels the same treatment.

Nowadays I always clean everything I use during development with washing up liquid after each use.

I sincerely hope you solve this problem.

Andrew Moxom · Apr 7, 2008

washing up liquid is like using wetting agent. It also contains surfactants that are hard to remove, just like wetting agent. I would not do this.

Photo Engineer · Apr 7, 2008

Clean them using rubber gloves and a standard phosphate cleaning solution commonly used on walls. It is very effective. Use cotton or rubber gloves when loading. You may have hair or nose oil on your hands or some sort of lotion. I use hand lotion in the winter sometimes, and I have to wash it off to process or coat.

PE

haris · Apr 7, 2008

Ok, you used different films, cameras, tanks, reels, everything different and still have same problem. What else can be checked? However stupid this could sound, place where you put tank between agitations is leaned (not straight) and developer is not "touching" certain areas of film whole time when tank is staying? Something like that

david b · Apr 7, 2008

I also washed the tanks in the bleach bath that I gave the reels.

I just got done scrubbing the SS graduates with bar keepers friend.
This removed all of the hard water marks.
Now they are about to get a rinse in boiling water.

Any other thoughts?

And again, many thanks for the energy you all have put into this.

Do Jobo tanks and reels go bad?

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