Do Jobo 1501 reels fit in a Paterson tank?

[ChrisGalway]

Does anyone know if the Jobo 1501 Reel fits in the SuperSystem 4 Paterson tank? They have to fit over the central column (about 25.6mm diameter) AND fit into the outer tank diameter (about 96mm)

Thanks.

 

[Pieter12]

Why? I’m pretty sure they don’t.

 

[ChrisGalway]

The Jobo 1501 reel can accommodate two 120 films, with a red clip to separate them. I use the Paterson tank normally, but it might be nice sometimes to process two 120 films in 500ml of solution at once. Hence my question. I realise I could just buy a Jobo reel, but someone might be able to confirm or otherwise, would save me both money and time. Thanks.

 

[MattKing]

The Paterson reels work well for me with two 120 films, provided I:
1) use a water pre-rinse; and
2) use inversion agitation (5 seconds every 30 seconds) during all but the first 30 seconds of the development stage.
I successfully use rotary agitation for all the other stages, including the pre-rinse.
I just load the first film, push it until it reaches the end if the channels/centre of the reel, and then load the second roll, stopping as soon as it clears the ball bearings.
I've only done that with my usual B&W films - T-Max 100, T-Max 400 and, when I still had some, Plus-X

 

[Pieter12]

I have both Jobo and Paterson systems. The short answer is no. The reel fits loosely, but the spindle won't. You're better off buying a Jobo tank and reel, or a larger Paterson tank. Plus, I find the Jobo tanks a little finicky to load a single roll ( I have never tried putting 2 rollls on one reel) and seal the lid.

 

[Steven Lee]

@ChrisGalway As Matt said, you can load two films onto a Paterson reel without any problems. I've done this for years before switching to a JOBO system. I think the reason JOBO reels have those red clips is because of rotation. But if you're hand-agitating using the "Kodak method" (hand inversion with twisting motion) you'll be fine loading two rolls.

But if you insist on using a JOBO reel, you can't do this using standard equipment. You need a different center column, and I believe I've seen them online some time ago. Not sure if they were aftermarket or OEM, you can probably get creative with Google search terms to see if they are still made.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Thanks all for your input, I'm going to try loading a Paterson spiral with two 120s. I always use inversion agitation, not rotational.

 

[pentaxuser]

@ChrisGalway As Matt said, you can load two films onto a Paterson reel without any problems. I've done this for years before switching to a JOBO system. I think the reason JOBO reels have those red clips is because of rotation.

I had always thought that the red clip was simply a means of preventing any danger of the user pushing the second film onto the first by mistake and creating an overlap

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

For clarity, the issue with loading two 120 rolls into the same reel is that the film can move through the channels. Problems happen when the movement results in one film overlapping the other.
My results indicate to me that the films I use move a lot more in the developer than during any other step - my guess is that they are "slipperier" in the developer than anywhere else.
Also, for clarity, most of my many rolls developed with two on the reel have employed the AP/Arista Premium/Samigon Paterson clone reels - the ones with wider entry flanges.

 

[MattKing]

I had always thought that the red clip was simply a means of preventing any danger of the user pushing the second film onto the first by mistake and creating an overlap

pentaxuser

That and to stop the films from moving into an overlap position.

 

[pentaxuser]

That and to stop the films from moving into an overlap position.

So the crucial question now is: Do you need a clip if you have made sure that the first film is sufficiently far round the reel that there is a gap between it and the second film using Steven's agitation method as he states?

pentaxuser

 

[Steven Lee]

By the way, there is another way to lock at least one of them in place: when you finish loading the second roll, leave the film tip under those ball bearings. It will not move. This is optional by the way.

 

[MattKing]

So the crucial question now is: Do you need a clip if you have made sure that the first film is sufficiently far round the reel that there is a gap between it and the second film using Steven's agitation method as he states?

pentaxuser

I don't know - JOBO reels may be more or less slippery than the ones I use.

 

[mshchem]

Way back, at least 40 years ago, I would feed on the first 120, then start the second and put a bit of tape to join the two.

 

[bags27]

If you double the 120 film in the tank, to what extent do you adjust developer concentration?

 

[MattKing]

If you double the 120 film in the tank, to what extent do you adjust developer concentration?

You need to make sure that the amount of stock/concentrate used has enough capacity to develop two rolls.
For some developers, and some dilutions, you need not worry - there is already sufficient capacity in the working solution to easily handle a second roll.
But if you tend to work with dilutions close to where there is the minimum necessary to develop a single roll, then you need to either add more working solution, or increase the concentration.
As an example, HC-110 dil B (1 +31) requires a minimum of 192 ml of working solution per roll (Kodak capacity recommendation of 6 ml concentrate per roll). So if you add a second roll, you need to have in the tank at least twice that - 384 ml of dil B working solution.
If you normally use dilution H (1 + 63) which requires 384 ml of working solution per roll, a 500 ml tank won't have enough room in it, so you will need to increase the dilution concentration you use in order to develop two rolls. A dilution of 1 + 41 would do the trick.

 

[Don_ih]

Do you need a clip if you have made sure that the first film is sufficiently far round the reel that there is a gap between it and the second film using Steven's agitation method as he states?

I threw out all my red clips years ago. Frankly, loading a single 120 film onto a Jobo reel is a punishing activity. That I'd want to try to put a second one on the same reel is so incredibly unlikely, you'd never get me to believe I'd do it. I pretty much hate the 1500 reels, though - I much prefer the 1000 series reels.

Incidentally, you don't need much of a gap. The film won't move on that reel if you're doing inversion. It barely moves on that reel when you're trying to load it.

 

[pentaxuser]

Incidentally, you don't need much of a gap. The film won't move on that reel if you're doing inversion. It barely moves on that reel when you're trying to load it.

Yes from what you and Matt have said it appears that inversion/figure of eight agitation does not or is unlikely to cause it to overlap but with continuous rotation the answer may be less clear. Short of anyone here being able to say he has tried rotation without a clip or tape I suppose the answer is that we do not know. However the chances of an overlap may depend on (a) how far apart the two films can be and (b) whether the inversion is in one direction only or frequent change of direction as per the Jobo processor

pentaxuser