DIY Rapid Fixer

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

Anyone making their own rapid fixer? I love Ilford Rapid Fix, just wondering if I can save any $ making my own. Thanks!

 

[Marco Buonocore]

You could make something like TF-3 alkaline rapid fix. You need 60% Ammonium Thiosulfate. I suspect any rapid fix will need Ammonium Thiosulfate. I wasn't able to source it for a price that would have saved me any money over using the Ilford Rapid Fix / Hypam. Chemical prices in Canada are pretty lousy, mind you.

 

[darkroommike]

I don't think you'll save a lot (if any!) money but you'll be able to try a number of different rapid fix formulations without investing in a lot of chemicals.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The main component of rapid fixer is ammonium thiosulfate which is usually sold as a 60% solution. Therefore you are paying to ship water. This really cuts into any savings one might make from mixing your own. However there are a number of fixers that are based on sodium thiosulfate plus the addition of either ammonium chloride or ammonium sulfate. These fixers are faster than sodium thiosulfate ones but slower than ammonium thiosulfate ones. They would also be cheaper to mix up.

 

[RPC]

Here is a link to a thread I had bookmarked for one such fixer described by Gerald:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[LAG]

I don't think you'll save a lot (if any!) money ...

I agree

 

[Agulliver]

Is it just a 60% solution of ammonium thiosulphate? I'm lucky enough to work in an environment where I have a kilo of the stuff in powder form....

Are there no other ingredients?

 

[pdeeh]

Is it just a 60% solution of ammonium thiosulphate?

No.
Read Gerald's post more carefully.

Then search for "rapid fixer formula"

 

[darkroommike]

Is it just a 60% solution of ammonium thiosulphate? I'm lucky enough to work in an environment where I have a kilo of the stuff in powder form....

Are there no other ingredients?

It might be possible to use a fixer made just from ammonium thiosulfate but I suspect that it would not last long in use or store well.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I gave up on mixing up my own rapid fix. Too expensive. Easier and cheaper just to walk to the camera shop in nearby mall.... yes, I did say camera shop! They carry analogue at the end of an isle, about 3x4ft. section.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Anhydrous sodium and ammonium thiosulfate rapidly absorb moisture from the air. This causes the salts to turn to something resembling concrete. Keep any powdered forms well sealed. This is why the anhydrous forms are seldom used.

It was not my intent to suggest that rapid fixer contains only liquid ammonium thiosulfate.

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

Here is a link to a thread I had bookmarked for one such fixer described by Gerald:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

After reading that, I'll probably stick with Ilford. I make my own D-23 and Dektol so I'm saving plenty there.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Making up one of these fixers is not difficult. Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate is easily available. Finding a supplier for ammonium chloride or sulfate is another matter. The technical grade of ammonium sulfate is sold in garden supply stores. Another example would be Kodak F-8.

There are several formulas for this type of fixer. They contain approximately 50 g/l of the ammonium salt. Why isn't the amount higher as say a molar ratio of 1:1? Probably because both ammonium salts corrode certain metal alloys. Ammonium chloride more so than the sulfate. This is important for commercial processors where exposure to the fixer is continuous. The home enthusiast need not be concerned. Increasing the salt content of a fixer can actually slow the fixing rate. So it may not be advisable to "improve" on a formula. Besides photo processing is not a race.

 

[Rudeofus]

They contain approximately 50 g/l of the ammonium salt. Why isn't the amount higher as say a molar ratio of 1:1?

The more ions you add to a fixer, the more ionic strength effects will slow down fixation. While amounts up to 50 g/l of Ammonium Chloride will speed up a Sodium Thiosulfate fixer, amounts above 50 g/l will decrease that speedup, until you end up slower than with a plain hypo fixer.

Here is what I would suggest to make a cost effective fixer:

1. Mix 200 g/l Sodium Thiosulfate Pentahydrate and 10 g/l Sodium Metabisulfite. Make another mixture of Ammonia solution and Acetic Acid in proper molar 1:1 ratio. Slowly add increasing amounts of Ammonium Acetate solution to the Sodium Thiosulfate / Sodium Metabisulfite mixture and test film clip clearing speed. Add Ammonium Acetate solution until fixing speed is optimal, you will get clearing times close to rapid fixer, and quite a bit faster than the classic Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride system. Since Ammonia solution and Acetic Acid are sold in different concentrations depending on where and who you are, this formula requires you to find your own optimum with the compounds you can get.
2. Mix 200 g/l Sodium Thiosulfate Pentahydrate, 40 g/l Ammonium Chloride, 10 g/l Sodium Sulfite anhydrous and 2.2 g/l Sodium Metabisulfite. This will give you a near neutral fixer with good fixing speed (40 seconds clearing time for Tri-X, vs. 120 seconds for a plain hypo fixer), a bit slower than what you can get with formula 1, but with a ready to use composition.
3. Various patents claim, that up to 40 molar percent of Thiosulfate can be supplied as Sodium Thiosulfate in a rapid fixer without significantly affecting its performance. Since Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% is sold at outrageous prices compared to Sodium Thiosulfate, it might be worthwhile to mix up 200 g/l Sodium Thiosulfate and 10 g/l Sodium Sulfite (this mixture has excellent shelf life), and mix this in various ratios with commercial rapid fixer 1+4 working solution (e.g. 400 ml Sodium Thiosulfate stock, 120 ml rapid fixer concentrate and 480 ml water instead of 200 ml rapid fixer concentrate and 800 ml water).

BTW there is little point in complaining, that Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% solution ships with 40% water, since the common form of Sodium Thiosulfate, which is the Pentahydrate, also contains plenty of crystal water, 36% water to be accurate.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

BTW there is little point in complaining, that Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% solution ships with 40% water, since the common form of Sodium Thiosulfate, which is the Pentahydrate, also contains plenty of crystal water, 36% water to be accurate.

You're right it is a toss up. In my mind I keep seeing a jug of liquid. For the US I don't believe the USPS permits you to ship liquids except in small amounts. No restriction of sodium thiosulfate crystals except 70 lb limit per package. This forces shipment by other carriers that are more expensive. So liquid ammonium thiosulfate will be more expensive to ship. Don't know about the EU restrictions.

 

[Rudeofus]

For the US I don't believe the USPS permits you to ship liquids except in small amounts. No restriction of sodium thiosulfate crystals except 70 lb limit per package. This forces shipment by other carriers that are more expensive. So liquid ammonium thiosulfate will be more expensive to ship. Don't know about the EU restrictions.

I just checked whether and under which conditions B&H would ship 5l Ilford Rapid Fixer liquid concentrate to California. UPS ground would be by far the cheapest option, but they'd also ship through UPS next day air and through USPS Priority Mail. The restrictions you mentioned may apply to corrosive, flammable or otherwise hazardous liquids, but not to relatively mundane rapid fixer concentrate. Since it's also easy to get rapid fixer shipped with EU, that might not be a big issue.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I just checked whether and under which conditions B&H would ship 5l Ilford Rapid Fixer liquid concentrate to California. UPS ground would be by far the cheapest option, but they'd also ship through UPS next day air and through USPS Priority Mail. The restrictions you mentioned may apply to corrosive, flammable or otherwise hazardous liquids, but not to relatively mundane rapid fixer concentrate. Since it's also easy to get rapid fixer shipped with EU, that might not be a big issue.

Interesting. Some years ago the USPS refused to ship an innocuous liquid based solely on the cost of cleaning up any spillage should an accident occur. I guess competition has changed their minds a bit. I am surprised that UPS is cheaper as USPS is subsidized to some extent. They advertise their low cost from time to time on TV.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Interestingly enough, the molecular weight of Ammonium (NH4+) is 18, while that of Sodium (Na+) is 23. This tiny difference just about offsets the weight difference of 60% Ammonium Hypo solution vs solid Sodium Hypo Pentahydrate. Considering the big increase in fix rate and wash rate possible with Ammonium Hypo fixers, it is a no brainer for me.

See the super fix formula on APUG here. It, or variations on it work fine.

PE

 

[Alan Johnson]

I mixed up a liter of Agfa 304 a year ago, not used it yet but in a full sealed bottle it is still perfectly clear, no crystal or other deposits.
Its probably cheaper to ship the chemicals without the added water.

 

[Rudeofus]

When comparing Thiosulfate compounds, one must also consider, that there are interactions between Silver ions, Halide ions, Thiosulfate ions and whatever counter cation comes with the Thiosulfate. There are mixed salts of Silver, Thiosulfate and Iodide, which are much more likely to form in the presence of Sodium than in the presence of Ammonium. As a result, Ammonium Thiosulfate based fixers have much higher capacity for dissolving Silver Iodide that fixers based on Sodium Thiosulfate. This may not matter much with photographic papers, but it matters a lot with modern film stock.

Alan: I already showed that crystalline Sodium Thiosulfate has just as much water content as Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% solution. Ammonium Thiosulfate powder exists, but is definitely not cost effective regardless of shipping costs. Unless you absolutely require powder form (e.g. for C-41 powder kits), you're better of with 60% solution.

 

[Alan Johnson]

What is commercial rapid fixer?Is it near 60% ammonium thiosulfate or does it ship with added water?
It appears to be 36-50 % thiosulfate so not much added water.
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20092129200964.pdf

 

[Bob Carnie]

Anyone making their own rapid fixer? I love Ilford Rapid Fix, just wondering if I can save any $ making my own. Thanks!

I went down this road once and realistically did not find a real savings , vs PIA of preparing. I am quite happy buying the Hypam or Rapid Fix in the 5 litre containers.
Mixing developers on the other hand I found satisfying and I mix my own solarization devs , and if I got back into mural production would mix my own dev for that purpose where
I do see great savings and flexibility.

 

[Rudeofus]

What is commercial rapid fixer?Is it near 60% ammonium thiosulfate or does it ship with added water?
It appears to be 36-50 % thiosulfate so not much added water.
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20092129200964.pdf

Well, following that MSDS and common knowledge about fixers, I'd say that it contains Ammonium Thiosulfate, Ammonium Sulfite, possibly some sequestering agent for water hardness and Boric Acid. The Boric Acid brings pH down to target pH, buffers it at that pH, and makes the fixer compatible with hardeners. No idea whether these rapid fixers contain anything less, but given that they are no match for Ron's Superfix 1, I would assume that the above listed compounds are pretty much it.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Commercial hardening fixers that come as liquid kits, do contain extra water to dissolve the hardener and dilute the acid.

Alkaline or neutral fixers contain little or no extra water.

PE

 

[Alan Johnson]

The Adofix powder to make 5L is about 1/3 the price of the 5L Adofix liquid, before shipping costs.
Evidently they know how to save $ by making their own.