DIY ECN-2, looking for Kodak Anti-Calcium #4 replacement

[koraks]

Sounds like the bottom line is, just use a PhotoFlo + formalin final rinse for all my color films, whether they be C-41, E-6, or ECN-2

Can't go wrong with that!

 

[Rudeofus]

Page 7-4:
View attachment 359249

Besides, since a processed color negative emulsion is essentially gelatin with some dyes, it's inherently prone to microbiological damage as there's no protective silver as there is in B&W film. As such, the requirement of a biocide for optimal archival stability is kind of obvious and inherent to a color negative material.

In the ECN world, film would be typically stored under strictly controlled atmospheric conditions, therefore not all movie film stock needs a biocide. This is likely the reason, which the biocide is optional in ECN-2, but mandatory in C-41/E-6 processing.

Either way, all those folks here, who won't store their film in a humidity controlled room (guilty as charged, your honor), will have to use a biocide (the extra option in H2407).

 

[koraks]

In the ECN world, film would be typically stored under strictly controlled atmospheric conditions

Furthermore, I doubt the archival properties of ECN2 films are all that relevant anymore to the cine industry. They scan and from there digitally archive. I wonder if the camera film is even kept around for all productions.

 

[BHuij]

I wonder if the camera film is even kept around for all productions.

Probably depends on whether the director's name starts with a "Scorsese" or not

 

[BHuij]

Formalin arrived today. Taking sensible precautions I was able to mix up 4.5ml of it with 450ml of water and 2.25ml of PhotoFlo 200, without fogging my corneas. I threw a sheet of fresh 4x5 Ektachrome that I exposed and developed about a week ago in the tray for a couple of minutes with this stabilizer and hung it to dry. So far the dyes still look great, and no microorganisms have eaten the gelatin I'll try to remember to come back here in 20 years and report on the stability of this chrome again

 

[lamerko]

Take it outside in the sun - it will be gone within a week

 

[BHuij]

As kind of a "final report" here, I'm getting excellent results that I'm very happy with developing ECN-2 films. I'm getting acceptable results developing C-41 films, but I suspect I can upgrade that to "excellent" with a little more experimentation, now that I know CD-3 is significantly less active than CD-4. And the biggest surprise is that I was able to get far better results than I expected with E6 films. Some HC-110, light fogging, and then ECN-2 chemistry is producing really, really nice slides. And yes, I'm stabilizing with formalin at the end now

 

[koraks]

That's quite impressive - but there's quite a heavy yellow cast in that one frame, isn't there:

 

[BHuij]

Low-CRI and rather blueish light source from the tracing tablet, and iPhone auto white balance not doing me any favors there. The thin area of that sheet looks much more neutral in person. It does have a slight yellow cast. Hard to say whether that's simply because I shot these frames with an 81A filter, or because there's something wrong with my process or chemistry. *shrug* easy enough to correct in post. I'll worry about getting it perfect when Ilford announces that they're bringing back Cibachrome

 

[koraks]

Ah gotcha; that could explain it quite well!

 

[abddba]

If you look at their catalog, you will see several "anti-calcium" compounds:

View attachment 357053

Their "Anti-Calcium" product seems to be Sodium Hexametaphosphate, which is one of the worst sequestering agents for our purpose: like EDTA it doesn't impede the Fenton reaction, and unlike EDTA it also hydrolyses in alkaline solution. Use it only, if you mix fresh, and if you have issues with water hardness turning your developers milky.

I did not find anything about their "Anti-Calcium #4" product, but Kodak has a sequestering agent with the exact same name, and it's ATMP-Na5, which would be excellent for our work. It may be worthwhile asking the people at Formulary, whether this compound is still available and whether it is indeed what I suspect it is.

kodak Anti-Calcium #4 柯达 防钙剂# 4 is dapta CAS:106362-34-9​

1 3 二氨基乙羟基丙级四乙酸

 

[BHuij]

Great info - luckily I'm unconcerned about the Fenton reaction, since I'm mixing up from dry immediately prior to use, and using one-shot. Shelf life means nothing to me now

So far I haven't had any trouble getting clean negs free of hard water stains, so I probably don't need to worry about getting my hands on any anti calcium agents.

 

[Rudeofus]

kodak Anti-Calcium #4 柯达 防钙剂# 4 is dapta CAS:106362-34-9​

1 3 二氨基乙羟基丙级四乙酸
View attachment 377363

It appears, that you mixed up quite a few things here:

CAS 106362-34-9 is some weird peptide compound with no (known to me) application in photo chemistry.

The compound you have in that graphic is 1,3-Diamino-2-Hydroxypropane-N,N,N',N'-Tetraacetic Acid, which is a sequestering agent, but most likely not Kodak's Anticalcium #4.

I have already mentioned the true structure of Kodak's Anticalcium #4 in the posting you referenced.

 

[abddba]

看起来，你在这里混淆了很多事情：

CAS 106362-34-9是一种奇怪的肽化合物，据我所知在光化学中没有应用。

该图中的化合物是 1,3-二氨基-2-羟基丙烷-N,N,N',N'-四乙酸，它是一种螯合剂，但很可能不是柯达的抗钙剂 #4。

我已经在您引用的帖子中提到了柯达抗钙#4 的真实结构。

3148-72-9

 

[Rudeofus]

3148-72-9

2235-43-0