I was partially aware of this, but now that you are saying this I see that it was a bit to much out of my sight. I will consider alternative materials. I guess the rollers can be made water tight, but the 8mm axes of the rollers and gears are actually made out of alluminium too. Brass it's not good for the blix, so I will see if PVC rods will do the job. Even for the rollers PVC could be an option. Existing storage boxes would be fine, but it's hard to find the right dimensions.That's very cool stuff! I thought about something like this, but as with so many ideas, I never even moved to a paper napkin stage, let alone anything remotely resembling getting stuff done. It doesn't help (or perhaps, it does) that I have the luxury of having a few tabletop processors, so I've never had the need to tackle this issue.
Congrats on this project; it looks great!
I do have a concern about the heat-shrinked aluminum rollers. I wonder to what extent it'll prove to be possible to protect the aluminum from the RA4 developer.I suspect the aluminum will survive the blixfor the most part, but the developer will corrode it, and it'll be a pretty fast process that will likely also affect the developer itself. So I think you'll ensure that there's absolutely no way the developer can make its way to the aluminum.
Edit: the blix will actually also dissolve the aluminum.
The Printo does not use a foam roller; this was used on e.g. the RCP machines and it's a known wear item. Nothing inherently wrong with using one, of course. It's an effective way to make a swift transition from the developer to the stop bath.
I notice you printed the tub as well; have you considered using a stock item (some kind of storage box, tray, etc.) as a starting point? I'm asking because that would bring print time way down and it would also mean less of a headache trying to waterproof the whole thing. Then again, it'd make the project dependent on a 3rd party stock item, so there's pros & cons involved.
Also, as the owner of a Printo, I can attest to the many, many similarities between your project and the original device!
I'd be inclined to work the other way around and start with a box of roughly the right size and then build the machine on that basis. However, there's a potential challenge with chemistry economy. One thing the Durst machines do very well, is being economical. An RCP20 or 30cm Printo both run on just 2.5L of chemistry, which isn't a whole lot if you think about it. It's actually pretty challenging to top that. Maybe if you used PVC drain pipe as a basis for the tank; cut it in half lengthwise and waterproof it on both ends so you end up with a trough. That might be pretty efficient.Existing storage boxes would be fine, but it's hard to find the right dimensions.
Thank you so much for your help! I’ve done a bit of "research" at our local home improvement retailer. I found 20 mm water pipes rated for 95 °C, so I guess deformation at 34–35 °C processing temperature won’t be an issue. They’re quite rigid too. I think the softening point of the pipe is around 120–140 °C. If I insert a wooden rod during the heating process, it should stay dimensionally stable while shrinking. With a 25 mm shrink tube I might not even need to heat that much.PVC rollers may work; the main question is whether they'll be rigid enough also at process temperature. There's quite some work done by several people in attempts to rebuild or refurbish the Durst RCP rollers, which are notorious for corrosive self-destruction (I can personally attest to this). One scenario I've considered and that may work for you as well is to start with a standard let's say 6mm stainless steel rod, print a cylindrical sleeve that fits over it and then line that on the outside with heat-shrink tubing. A friend of mine is test-running heat shrink tubing over other types of rollers; I'm not sure what the progress is on that, but I've not hear any stories about smoke & explosions yet. The question is how durable the heat shrink stuff will be over time, but it's not too bad if it lasts for maybe a few months or a few years as it's easy to replace.
I'd be inclined to work the other way around and start with a box of roughly the right size and then build the machine on that basis. However, there's a potential challenge with chemistry economy. One thing the Durst machines do very well, is being economical. An RCP20 or 30cm Printo both run on just 2.5L of chemistry, which isn't a whole lot if you think about it. It's actually pretty challenging to top that. Maybe if you used PVC drain pipe as a basis for the tank; cut it in half lengthwise and waterproof it on both ends so you end up with a trough. That might be pretty efficient.
I found 20 mm water pipes rated for 95 °C
This is essentially how the original Durst/Termaphot rollers were also made. In that case, some kind of plastic/polymer lining was fitted over the ends of the rods. Ultimately, that failed; I'm not sure whether it's just due to creepage (the lining only extended for a short length IIRC) or the more aggressive nature of the RA4 chemistry compared to the perceding chemistry for which the older RCP machines were originally made.I’m fairly confident that I could also seal the aluminum rollers properly if I dip the tube ends 10 mm into the right sealant (epoxy resin or some PU-based primer).
Hi everyone,
I wanted to share a project I’ve been working on: a modular, DIY-friendly RA-4 paper processor named RePrinto. Inspired by the classic Durst Printo, this is not a 1:1 replica, but rather a modern reinterpretation using 3D-printed parts, off-the-shelf components, and open hardware principles. So these here re not parts compatible with the original Printo.
As a student in the early 90s, I did some color printing when RA-4 chemistry became more accessible. After a long break, I got back into analog photography a few years ago – encouraged by my daughter, who also learned C-41 and RA-4 processing. One day, she asked me if there wasn’t an easier way to develop color prints at home (the annoying full darkness and tray temperature). I remembered those cool tabletop processors from Durst and Ilford – the kind I couldn’t afford as a student. I looked around and found the Durst Printo again… but even second-hand units were surprisingly expensive (when you find one...).
That’s when the idea struck: could I build something similar myself? I already built large format enlargers and some darkroom gear. My idea was to have:
As I had not Printo to look into, I only used the pictures, manual I could find online and the pictures from the (expired) original patent.
- A modular RA-4 paper processor with at least 2 stages, but expandable up to 5.... and a feeding module.
- Fully 3D-printable parts, with standard aluminum tubing and PETG.
- Transport via 8+2 rollers (like in the Printo), using shrink tube for grip.
- Target processing time: base ~45 seconds per module, continuous feed, with option for other processing times with digital controlled motor.
- Compact and affordable – and free to use or adapt (non-commercial license)
My Challenges & Solutions:
3D Considerations: I print on a 400×400×450 mm printer, but I’m working to downscale parts to fit 220×220×250 mm beds, so others can easily replicate the project. Printing one module takes weeks (PETG is ultra slow in print speed) and even more when testing is included.
- Rollers: I used 20 mm aluminum tubing (for electrical installation) and found heat-shrink grip tubing (originally meant for sports equipment) to simulate the original rubber coating. The foam squeeze rollers were made from pipe insulation over 10 mm rods.
- Gearing: Durst used a custom pitch – I standardized on module 2 gears (with wide pressure angle) for the rollers and module 1.5 for the motor drive train. All gears are 3D printed. The swappable gears for speed change are not needed.
- Transport Mechanism: I designed roller ends with brass bushings (instead of ball bearings, which don’t survive RA-4 chemicals). A NEMA 17 stepper motor drives the system with a calculated gear ratio to achieve a precise and variable speed (no gear swapping needed).
- Paper Guides: In the original Printo these are made out of molded plastic (even integrated in the tray) or stainless steel. I designed 3D printed guides the will be trated with epoxy resin to be smooth.
- Heating: A small aquarium heater brings the fluids up to 35 degrees (Celsius) and have already all the needed temperature regulation built in.
- Materials & Printing: PETG was the obvious choice for water/chemical resistance. It’s tricky to print cleanly – most parts needed post-adjustment due to PETG’s shrinkage and tolerances. Also, I designed everything support-free for better quality and easier printing.
- First tests: The prototype already works with real RA-4 paper and water. The routing of the paper is working too. No chemistry yet – but the transport is smooth, consistent, and even handles wet paper well.
Next steps:
View attachment 400526View attachment 400531View attachment 400532View attachment 400530View attachment 400527View attachment 400528View attachment 400529
- Build a second and third process module.
- Add the feed-in module and finalize light-tight features.
- Begin tests with actual chemistry.
- Publish files and documentation on GitHub (soon).
- Create BOM with part sources and instructions.
This is still very much a work in progress, but I’ll post updates as things evolve. I’d love to hear your feedback – especially if you’ve ever used the original Durst Printo or built something similar.
Cheers. Marco
PVC rods will do the job. Even for the rollers PVC could be an option.
Kind of cost-prohibitive for a hobby project, though. At least last time I checked. Recoating existing rollers with a suitable PU lining was north of €40 per piece. Costs won't be much lower if you supply a brand new rod/core. It might be worth it if you order a batch size of 1000pcs or so in China.Printers' engineers will be able to make roller squeegees of the right durometer & chemical resistance on a suitable core that you supply.
I was thinking the same. The spirit of my project is to make everything affordable and DIY-like. Building an industrial grade Printo copy is not really the goal here. In the meantime I think I have a valid axes material altarnative by printing them in PETG with a metal core. I made a fist test and it seems a possible solution. I will consider POM rods too as option. Another problem are the brass bushings I'm using: The alloy is a bit more chemical ressiatant than plain brass, but RA4 chemistry is really too aggressive for these. I will see if I find precise POM or stainless steel ones.Kind of cost-prohibitive for a hobby project, though. At least last time I checked. Recoating existing rollers with a suitable PU lining was north of €40 per piece. Costs won't be much lower if you supply a brand new rod/core. It might be worth it if you order a batch size of 1000pcs or so in China.
Kind of cost-prohibitive for a hobby project, though. At least last time I checked. Recoating existing rollers with a suitable PU lining was north of €40 per piece. Costs won't be much lower if you supply a brand new rod/core. It might be worth it if you order a batch size of 1000pcs or so in China.
The spirit of my project is to make everything affordable and DIY-like. Building an industrial grade Printo copy is not really the goal here.
Correct. My words.I think you're losing sight of the crucial bit of information here:
Anyway, since the building plans are apparently going to be published, nobody will be stopped from having their own super-durable rollers made if they so desire.
Hi everyone,
I wanted to share a project I’ve been working on: a modular, DIY-friendly RA-4 paper processor named RePrinto. Inspired by the classic Durst Printo, this is not a 1:1 replica, but rather a modern reinterpretation using 3D-printed parts, off-the-shelf components, and open hardware principles. So these here re not parts compatible with the original Printo.
As a student in the early 90s, I did some color printing when RA-4 chemistry became more accessible. After a long break, I got back into analog photography a few years ago – encouraged by my daughter, who also learned C-41 and RA-4 processing. One day, she asked me if there wasn’t an easier way to develop color prints at home (the annoying full darkness and tray temperature). I remembered those cool tabletop processors from Durst and Ilford – the kind I couldn’t afford as a student. I looked around and found the Durst Printo again… but even second-hand units were surprisingly expensive (when you find one...).
That’s when the idea struck: could I build something similar myself? I already built large format enlargers and some darkroom gear. My idea was to have:
As I had not Printo to look into, I only used the pictures, manual I could find online and the pictures from the (expired) original patent.
- A modular RA-4 paper processor with at least 2 stages, but expandable up to 5.... and a feeding module.
- Fully 3D-printable parts, with standard aluminum tubing and PETG.
- Transport via 8+2 rollers (like in the Printo), using shrink tube for grip.
- Target processing time: base ~45 seconds per module, continuous feed, with option for other processing times with digital controlled motor.
- Compact and affordable – and free to use or adapt (non-commercial license)
My Challenges & Solutions:
3D Considerations: I print on a 400×400×450 mm printer, but I’m working to downscale parts to fit 220×220×250 mm beds, so others can easily replicate the project. Printing one module takes weeks (PETG is ultra slow in print speed) and even more when testing is included.
- Rollers: I used 20 mm aluminum tubing (for electrical installation) and found heat-shrink grip tubing (originally meant for sports equipment) to simulate the original rubber coating. The foam squeeze rollers were made from pipe insulation over 10 mm rods.
- Gearing: Durst used a custom pitch – I standardized on module 2 gears (with wide pressure angle) for the rollers and module 1.5 for the motor drive train. All gears are 3D printed. The swappable gears for speed change are not needed.
- Transport Mechanism: I designed roller ends with brass bushings (instead of ball bearings, which don’t survive RA-4 chemicals). A NEMA 17 stepper motor drives the system with a calculated gear ratio to achieve a precise and variable speed (no gear swapping needed).
- Paper Guides: In the original Printo these are made out of molded plastic (even integrated in the tray) or stainless steel. I designed 3D printed guides the will be trated with epoxy resin to be smooth.
- Heating: A small aquarium heater brings the fluids up to 35 degrees (Celsius) and have already all the needed temperature regulation built in.
- Materials & Printing: PETG was the obvious choice for water/chemical resistance. It’s tricky to print cleanly – most parts needed post-adjustment due to PETG’s shrinkage and tolerances. Also, I designed everything support-free for better quality and easier printing.
- First tests: The prototype already works with real RA-4 paper and water. The routing of the paper is working too. No chemistry yet – but the transport is smooth, consistent, and even handles wet paper well.
Next steps:
View attachment 400526View attachment 400531View attachment 400532View attachment 400530View attachment 400527View attachment 400528View attachment 400529
- Build a second and third process module.
- Add the feed-in module and finalize light-tight features.
- Begin tests with actual chemistry.
- Publish files and documentation on GitHub (soon).
- Create BOM with part sources and instructions.
This is still very much a work in progress, but I’ll post updates as things evolve. I’d love to hear your feedback – especially if you’ve ever used the original Durst Printo or built something similar.
Cheers. Marco
To the uninitiated, that would appear to be a Durst Printo. As a Printo owner of long standing (1991 or about then) I'm super impressed.
One aspect of the Printo that needs storage care, are the squeegee exit rollers. These are always compressed together and for storage one needs to slip in a small spacer to stop them binding together and destroying the material, are your exit rollers of a similar set-up?
Thanks. That's exactly what I have ordered to make all the assembly RA4 resitant, but I use it inverted. The tubing is stainless steel and the rods POM or PETG. I want to avoid to cut, file and/or mill steel, as you need dedicated and clean cutting blades. The 316 steel tubes come pre cutted. If you cut 316 steel with contaminated (if used to cut carbon or machine steel) blades it can set rust in RA4 environement.Good effort considering the increasing amount of people seeking these print processors and units reaching absurd prices these days. You could use smaller and probably cheaper stainless rods with silicone tubing and PVC pipes split in half for the main body.
For exit rollers you can source open/closed cell foam tubes from China easily, put them on stainless rods in the same manner.
C
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