DIY 8x10 Drum Processor - Requesting Tips/Advice

[Qebs]

Greetings everyone,
Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

So, I'm trying to setup for 8x10 RA4 paper darkroom processing with a DIY plastic tube processor.

I bought 6 inch pipe and I find the 8x10 paper isn't clinging to the inner walls very well.
Perhaps I bought too big of a diameter tube/pipe.

I have a few questions for you super smart folks:

1. Is there anyway to use this 6 inch pipe, or should I got down to 4" pipe.

2. Is 1/16th inch half round rods too small for the inner walls (so chemistry can get behind the paper)?

3. If I wanted to make a DIY drum processor that can do two 8x10 prints at the same time
do I essentially "double" the length of the pipe and chemistry so the paper is side by side? (by double I mean with out extra space between prints)

Thanks for reading this.
You people really make this an awesome community/resource of knowledge.

Be well

Best Regards,
Kevin H.

 

[Rafael Saffirio]

Hi,
I don't know how are you going to solve the the issue of making a hole for the developer that is light tight, but about the diameter 4 inch is ok, that's about the size of my ilford drum, also you don't need that the chemistry blow behind the paper, mine is flat inside.

 

[btaylor]

I am sure there is something driving the DIY route here, but why not just purchase the drums made for this purpose? I ended up with a bunch when I bought a “lot” of darkroom equipment for something in particular- I could hardly give away the perfectly good drums for postage!

 

[Paul Howell]

If you keep checking Ebay and other sites you can find a 11X14 Besler or Cibachrome, I would avoid Unicolor unless you want to fabricate a gasket.

 

[Qebs]

Hi,
I don't know how are you going to solve the the issue of making a hole for the developer that is light tight, but about the diameter 4 inch is ok, that's about the size of my ilford drum, also you don't need that the chemistry blow behind the paper, mine is flat inside.

---> Thanks Rafael, I don't need light tight as I will be using 940nm LEDs and night vision goggles.
Thanks for telling me 4 inches is okay. Huh really, no ribs needed! That's good news! Thanks!

I am sure there is something driving the DIY route here, but why not just purchase the drums made for this purpose? I ended up with a bunch when I bought a “lot” of darkroom equipment for something in particular- I could hardly give away the perfectly good drums for postage!

---> Hey btaylor, thanks! Yep, I was told it's easy to make my own, and eventually I will need a DIY drum for much larger prints.

If you keep checking Ebay and other sites you can find a 11X14 Besler or Cibachrome, I would avoid Unicolor unless you want to fabricate a gasket.

Okay, great, thanks Paul! May I ask how the paper sits in these drums?
Is it in a spiral configuration?

 

[MattKing]

Sometimes I use Cibachrome drums with black and white RC paper.
As long as the paper is a size that is reasonably close to the inner circumference of the drum, the paper curves nicely into the drum and stays put. A 4" drum has an inner circumference of over 12". That works well with paper 10" or 11" along a side.
I have had success with two pieces of paper butted against each other, each of which is 6" along a side.

 

[Qebs]

Thanks MattKing!

I think I will go with a pre-made drum for a single 8x10 for experimenting.
But I would like to buy or make one eventually for multiple 8x10 developing.

May I ask for two 8x10 sheets, would you still use a ~4 inch diameter tube and the print's 10 inch sides, side by side?
Could I also ask if the Cibachrome drums have that spout to pour in chemicals quickly and in a light tight manner?
Or could you recommend with jobo tanks I should get?

No rush on a reply, I think I will start with the single commercially made 8x10 drunk/tank.

Thanks again everyone!
Have a great new week.
Be well

 

[MattKing]

I have several Cibachrome tanks that all share the same end-cap.
The basic central tubes are sized big enough for an 8x12 print, so I can put one 8"x10" print in or four 4"x6" prints in.
I also have central tubes that permit an 11"x14" print.
And finally, I have central tubes that are twice as long as the first central tubes, so I can put two 8"x10" prints in side by side.
When I use them with multiple prints, I stagger the end point of the individual sheets.

 

[Qebs]

Hey,
Thanks again MattKing!
Have a good new week.
Be well
Best,
Kevin H.

 

[Qebs]

If you keep checking Ebay and other sites you can find a 11X14 Besler or Cibachrome, I would avoid Unicolor unless you want to fabricate a gasket.

Hey Paul, may I ask if the Besler drums should have gaskets that help prevent leaking?

Thank you very much!

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Greetings everyone,
Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

So, I'm trying to setup for 8x10 RA4 paper darkroom processing with a DIY plastic tube processor.

I bought 6 inch pipe and I find the 8x10 paper isn't clinging to the inner walls very well.
Perhaps I bought too big of a diameter tube/pipe.

I have a few questions for you super smart folks:

1. Is there anyway to use this 6 inch pipe, or should I got down to 4" pipe.

2. Is 1/16th inch half round rods too small for the inner walls (so chemistry can get behind the paper)?

3. If I wanted to make a DIY drum processor that can do two 8x10 prints at the same time
do I essentially "double" the length of the pipe and chemistry so the paper is side by side? (by double I mean with out extra space between prints)

Thanks for reading this.
You people really make this an awesome community/resource of knowledge.

Be well

Best Regards,
Kevin H.

JOBO 1500 series tanks fit a 8x10 perfectly. They make bigger tanks for bigger prints, up to 20x24, which if memory serves, is the biggest size paper you can buy that is precut. If you want to make prints bigger than that, you have to buy paper on a roll and cut your own. At that point, you’re well into custom territory.

at any rate, the jobo tanks are pretty easy to find on eBay and they’re not expensive compared to making your own tanks if you value your time.

 

[Qebs]

Hey Thanks Adrian,

Could you share with me a model number for the JOBO beyond just 1500.
I think there are many 1500 series tanks, and I don't know which is right.
~~~

I called a camera store in my province and they said, you shouldn't mix drum processing machines with different branded drums.

Is this correct? I was hoping to get a Beseler 8x10 for this home made processing machine I ordered that work with, I think, Patterson tanks.

~~~

And in this ebay ad, can anyone tell me what size the larger tank/drum is? Will it hold two 8x10's?
The ebay seller isn't being very clear.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/114882629480?hash=item1abf89cf68:g:3ZcAAOSwJYVg09Ey


Thanks everyone

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Hey Thanks Adrian,

Could you share with me a model number for the JOBO beyond just 1500.
I think there are many 1500 series tanks, and I don't know which is right.

A 1520 stacked with a 1530 extender or 1525 extender handles a single sheet of 8x10, or smaller sized sheet. You can also process up to 8x10 sheet film the exact same way as long as you're careful not to scratch the film during handling.

A 2540 stacked with a 2840 extender can handle up with a 12x16, if you stack two 2840s on a 2540 or 2520 you can do up to to a 16x20 pretty easily. You can also stack the 2840 extender on the 2561 (and other 2500 series tanks) for a plethora of sizes and configurations.

 

[MattKing]

I use both Paterson (not Patterson) tanks and AP tanks and even some steel reel tanks on a Beseler Rotary agitator like that eBay one.
Those rotary agitators aren't the same as brand specific processing machines like JOBO machines.
That agitator just agitates.
I can use a variety of tanks on my agitator because it doesn't really attach to the tanks - gravity does the work, and strategically placed rubber bands keep the tanks from rolling off.
The tanks in that ad look like 8x10 or possibly 11x14 print tanks.
Here is my home made adaption that permits using a steel reel tank on my Beseler agitator:

 

[Qebs]

Thank you Adrian and MattKing!

Thanks for the photo MattKing, kewl setup!

Is it true the 11x14 tanks fit two 8x10 sheets?
It must be a tight fit, as I see from this camera store the dimensions are 16"x6.25"x6.50"
http://store.khbphotografix.com/Color-by-Beseler-11x14-Print-Processing-Drum-Used.html


I ask, because I tried to build an 8x10 print processor with 6" diameter tube and the paper moves around
when you spin the tube.


Thanks everyone! Be well

 

[MattKing]

A 6" diameter tube has an inner circumference of over 18 inches - too large for a sheet of paper that is 10 inches long.
Note the insertable ribs pictured in that KHB listing - those ribs hold and keep separated the two 8x10 sheets, and hold the 11x14 sheet in place.
The Cibachrome tubes I use are smaller, and don't require ribs.
By the way, that setup for the steel reel tank only requires the outer, clear container because the inner one is too small to span the wheels on the agitator. 8x10 and larger print tubes like the Cibachrome tubes work fine as they are.
The down side of the steel reel tank setup is that it is amazingly noisy, particular if I use a longer metal tank.

 

[Qebs]

Very interesting MattKing! Thanks

Do you think I should go for that Ebay Beseler auction? I think the price is pretty average from looking online.

The only issue is I don't think that auction comes with the ribs. So I will really only be able to use the 8x10 drum.
And honestly, I don't get how the ribs work, I couldn't find any youtube videos on this.

Thanks again, have a great day

 

[MattKing]

The ribs slide into a slot in the inner surface of the tank. The print edges fit into the ribs.
If you were local, I could lend you my backup agitator! And probably a Cibachrome tube too.
My problem with buying the agitators on eBay is they are expensive to ship. If you get one that isn't running well, you will have spent too much getting it to you.

 

[Qebs]

Hey MattKing,

Okay, I think I can visualize your description.

Auww, thanks for offering to lend me your gear, sadly I'm in Toronto, Canada.

Okay, well maybe I'll make a gamble and bid on the item.

I bought this boutique store made agitator, and the product page the minimum length of a drum one can use is 4.5".
Do you think a Beseler 8x10 drum will work with it.
Could save me some money.

https://www.bounetphoto.com/bounet-shop/processor-new

Thanks so much!
Cheers

 

[MattKing]

Will your 6 inch diameter tube sit comfortably on that agitator, with clearance between the tube and the top surface of the agitator?
If so, a 6.25 inch diameter Beseler tube should work as well.
The clearance between the tube and the top surface of the agitator is the issue.

 

[Qebs]

Hey MattKing,
Thanks for your continued help



Okay, so, I think my diy 6 inch tube I bought from a plumbing supply shop is too big for 8x10 sheets and does not allow easy/consistent filling with chemistry (and would have to fill and empty in the dark - which might not be a problem if I use 940nm LEDs and a night vision goggle).

I think a 6 inch diameter should work, as the seller said even a 10" diameter tube should sit and rotate properly.

But if I get the ebay agitator, 8x10 drum, ~11x14 drum, I don't see any ribs in the photos in the auction page.

Am I correct you don't need the ribs if using an 8x10 drum with one 8x10 sheet?

You know, I think you are right that the 8x10" (6.25" Beseler tube should work).
If not, I'll get the Beseler agitator later.

Decisions...decisions... but I'll keep at it, and eventually I'll be able to start shooting analog again! hurray!

 

[Qebs]

Hey again,

So, my boutique store made agitator arrived, the fastest setting I can figure out, with out having a friend reprogram the device, is 2 rotations per minute for a 6 inch tube.

And it's 4.5 inches wide ( left set of wheels to right set of wheels).

Maybe I should post a wanted ad in the forums. Maybe someone has one at a better price than Ebay.

Cheers

 

[MattKing]

You will need to be a paid subscriber to post a wanted ad here.
The manual for the boutique agitator refers to mode 3, which turns its wheels at 38 rpm. I'm surprised that translates to as little as 2 rpm for a 6 inch tank - what is the diameter of those drive wheels?

 

[MattKing]

By the way, it looks like you could use a currently sold Paterson Super System 4 film tank. My 3 x 135 roll Paterson tanks look like they would work with a 6" x 11" print, so the larger tanks (5 roll and 8 roll) may be big enough for 8 x 10 and 11 x 14 prints.

 

[Qebs]

Hey MattKing!

Sorry for my slow reply.
My friend came over and we did three different setups in my little dinning room portrait studio

The drive wheels are 2" in diameter.
I should look over the manual again.

Wow, I used to have the Paterson 5 roll I think. I gave all my darkroom equipment away to my old high school when I had to move.

Okay, I'll look into the paterson tanks again

Edit* - Oh, I can't tell from the online photos, and my memory is bad, but were the Paterson 5 reel tanks tapered?

Will is work on a Beseler base agitator or the one I have already?

Cheers