Diving into the MF world! Searching for my first camera

Neil Grant · Jul 31, 2019

Another bonus of the 330 lenses is they are usually incredibly easy to disassemble and remove fungus or haze.[/QUOTE]
...that's right. The lenses are like those for large format where the optical cells screw either side into a central shutter. A gloved hand maybe be all you need to get into the lens for cleaning

Omid_K · Sep 29, 2019

My first MF camera was a Rolleiflex. My recommendation is to download Harry Fleenor's .pdf guide and look for a 1950s era one. Budget $500 for a user grade camera and another $400 (and 4-5 months unfortunately) to have Harry practically return it to factory shape. Everyone's budget varies and $1,000 may seem like a lot but I wholeheartedly think this is a winning approach. First off, a Fleenor refurbished Rollei will retain its value in the off chance you're not in love with the TLR format. Assuming you take to the square format I think you'll love the experience of shooting with this camera.

Arguments can be made for a system with interchangeable lenses/backs/viewfinders/etc but a Rollie TLR (I suggest the MX-EVS) is perfect in it's simplicity. You get great glass, that medium format "look", a square format, and no further distractions. The entirety of your energy goes into composition and metering. Photography for photography's sake.

Later you can continue your MF exploration with a Pentax 67, RZ67, Hassleblad, and a rangefinder dubbed the Texas Leica. But for your first I cannot endorse a setup better than this one.

-Omid
http://134photography.com

P.S. Any square image on my website was taken with my Rollei.

Grim Tuesday · Sep 29, 2019

I don't understand the obsession on this forum and others with Harry Fleenor. There are plenty of good Rollei people. I suggest Mark Hansen, who will charge you half as much, do the work in half the time and has all of the skill.

wyofilm · Sep 29, 2019

For travel ease there is a lot to be said for folders, as others have mentioned. I have two: an Agfa Isolette II (purchased from certo6) and a Voigtlander Bessa II (heliar version). The first has no rangefinder, while the second does. The Isolette has been fantastic for travel. Sunny 16 rule and zone focus will get you cover most outdoor situations. A great camera! Shove it in a coat pocket or even into a front pocket. A serviced Agfa Isolette III (has uncoupled rangefinder) was for sale at the certo6 ebay store for something like $210, a good value on from a reputable source.

The VB is new to me but so far has promise. At 6x9, it is not as nimble for tucking into a pocket.

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 29, 2019

So, youneedcoffee, what did you end up getting?

removed account4 · Sep 29, 2019

Andrew O'Neill said:
So, youneedcoffee, what did you end up getting?

andrew

i don't think we will ever know ...

RalphLambrecht · Sep 30, 2019

youneedcoffee said:
Hi everyone,

After getting in 35mm I'd love to give MF a go! I wanted to try a TLR as they look beautiful

I am currently looking at/for:

Lower end Rolleiflex (have not found one yet)

Rolleicord (untested early one $75-100 and a later iv $280)

Untested Zeiss Ikoflex (I've seen some mixed reviews $120)

Mamiya C220 (ground glass has some dust/marks $320)

Mamiya 330 (have not found one yet)

Part of me is also interested in:

Fuji GW690 (have not found one yet)

Mamiya RB67 (checking a couple out )

Is there any others I should look into?

I always ask about the

Focusing screen brightness/marks

Lens fungus/scratch/coating/dust

If it has had a CLA

Any other questions I should be asking? I'd like something working with the lenses/screen in good condition.

Thanks so much!

buy your first and last MF camera in one go Hasselblad500 V series. You'll never regret it.

campy51 · Sep 30, 2019

I recently bought a Mamiya 7 and with the built in accurate meter and focusing I think it's the easiest medium format I have used. It's as close you are going to get to a point and shoot in medium format as far as I know. I know it's a lot of money and if I didn't get a great deal on one I never would have bought one. Here is a quick point and shoot without much thought going into it.

Sirius Glass · Sep 30, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
buy your first and last MF camera in one go Hasselblad500 V series. You'll never regret it.

I had several before I got there and the digital revolution helped make it affordable.

k.hendrik · Sep 30, 2019

Do not think your images will be better with MF; no increase formula here ;(
so maybe start with the cheapest Lubitel2.
happy hunting!

feral_capitalist · Sep 30, 2019

I have (2) Mamiya C330, great for MF, but lack in other MF areas such as replaceable film backs, but you use the camera itself as a film back and swap lenses! TLR's have their advantages as well. For instance shooting infrared with a R72 is a cake walk compared to all SLR's. But circular polarizers are a B**** and forget GND filters. Research well what you can and cannot do with cameras.

I was eyeing the RB/RZ, it is a huge camera for MF, but lots of options.

Sirius Glass · Sep 30, 2019

feral_capitalist said:
I have (2) Mamiya C330, great for MF, but lack in other MF areas such as replaceable film backs, but you use the camera itself as a film back and swap lenses! TLR's have their advantages as well. For instance shooting infrared with a R72 is a cake walk compared to all SLR's. But circular polarizers are a B**** and forget GND filters. Research well what you can and cannot do with cameras.

I was eyeing the RB/RZ, it is a huge camera for MF, but lots of options.

When I use a R72 aka 720 filter the shutter speed is so slow that I would put any camera on a tripod. So I compose the scene, set the exposure, focus, then adjust the focus for IR film, put on the filter and then take the photograph. For a circular polarizer I put the filter on, set the exposure, compose the scene, take the exposure. No big deal like one would have with a TLR or RF camera.

MattKing · Oct 1, 2019

You don't need a circular polarizer for a TLR - the linear ones work fine.
For a Mamiya C series TLR, just buy two polarizers, put one on each lens, and make sure that they have the same orientation. Adjust the one on the viewing lens to set, and then adjust the one on the taking lens to match.

jimgalli · Oct 1, 2019

Find the book; Chavez Ravine, A Los Angeles Story by Don Normark. The images are breathtaking and they were made with a camera that has a hard time fetching $29 on Ebay. Which is both inspirational and depressing. Inspirational because the work is gorgeous, Depressing because awesome photographs probably have a lot more to do with the photographer than the camera. He used a Ciroflex which is a tin-can American version of a rollei wannabe. It had a decent Wollensak 85mm coated tessar type lens. Get the book. You'll see what I mean.

abruzzi · Oct 1, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
When I use a R72 aka 720 filter the shutter speed is so slow that I would put any camera on a tripod. So I compose the scene, set the exposure, focus, then adjust the focus for IR film, put on the filter and then take the photograph. For a circular polarizer I put the filter on, set the exposure, compose the scene, take the exposure. No big deal like one would have with a TLR or RF camera.

I use a R72 with my Kodak Retina and Rollei 400S, and it is perfectly fine handheld on a sunny day.

Sirius Glass · Oct 1, 2019

abruzzi said:
I use a R72 with my Kodak Retina and Rollei 400S, and it is perfectly fine handheld on a sunny day.

Not if you want to photograph with f/16.

abruzzi · Oct 1, 2019

Sure, but I’d much rather handhold at f8 or f5.6. It makes shooting with infrared as easy as shooting with normal film.

ParkerSmithPhoto · Oct 1, 2019

youneedcoffee said:
Hi everyone, After getting in 35mm I'd love to give MF a go! I wanted to try a TLR as they look beautiful

Really the best bang for the buck will most likely be a Mamiya TLR with a standard 80mm lens. That's really a great place to start. Paul Strand used a Mamiya TLR the last ten years or so of his life, and Diane Arbus made almost all of her photos on a Mamiya TLR.

That will also make a great travel camera compared to several of the others. The RB/RZ is like a small view camera, bit of a chunk. The Fuji is a very nice camera but you will need to get used to zone focusing as the rangefinder is a challenge. Both of these also beg for a tripod, whereas the Mamiya fits nicely in hand.

Sirius Glass · Oct 1, 2019

abruzzi said:
Sure, but I’d much rather handhold at f8 or f5.6. It makes shooting with infrared as easy as shooting with normal film.

Well the Hasselblad Zeiss lenses can still be very sharp a those f/stops. I might try it but I still cannot really see through a 720 filter.

abruzzi · Oct 1, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Well the Hasselblad Zeiss lenses can still be very sharp a those f/stops. I might try it but I still cannot really see through a 720 filter.

I think that was the whole point of the discussion. You can shoot IR with an SLR but it is much more cumbersome than shooting IR with a rangefinder or TLR. I have the bits to shoot IR with my Bronica SLR, but since I’m mostly a handheld shooter, I haven’t really given it much effort. I’ve stuck with the Kodak which makes some great images with the Schneider-Kreuzenach lens. If I was serious about IR on Medium format, I’d look for a rangefinder.

Sirius Glass · Oct 2, 2019

abruzzi said:
I’ve stuck with the Kodak which makes some great images with the Schneider-Kreuzenach lens.

Gee, there are much worse fates than that. It seems like Heaven to me.

AndyH · Oct 5, 2019

Great thread!

I have all formats from press to TLR to Hasselblad, but I'll put in a word for the high end 6x6 or 6x7 folder. Zeiss, Minolta, Voigtlander, Konica, and many others can be found dirt cheap on eBay and at KEH and other reputable dealers. The portability factor is huge - they will literally slip into a coat pocket and leave room for a meter.

Don't go for scale focusing in MF, you really do need the rangefinder, but it's still a very cheap entry point to producing the classic look and feel of the format.

If you're unsure about jumping into the big SLR pond, the Kowa models are cheap and easily repaired, with fine optics. They do sound like a Glock when you shoot them, though.

In the TLR field, the Czech Flexarit is still cheap and largely undiscovered by the collector community. Easily repairable by most competent repair people, and definitely a conversation piece. Nice optics and a generally reliable shutter.

On the subject of shutter speed in a medium format rig, if a shutter is consistently off in the same direction, it's pretty easy to compensate. You can get a decent idea of accuracy using a phone app called (surprisingly....) "Shutter Speed" which uses the phone's microphone to hear the opening and closing sounds. A more accurate "photo plug" light sensor is also available. Timing the shutters of my vintage gear has been very reassuring. Most of my vintage stuff is off by no more than 1/3 or 2/3 stop, which really doesn't make a huge difference in the field.

Andy

Grim Tuesday · Oct 5, 2019

AndyH52 said:
Great thread!

Don't go for scale focusing in MF, you really do need the rangefinder, but it's still a very cheap entry point to producing the classic look and feel of the format.

Andy

I will second this, I have spent lots of money buying folders without rangefinders. Irresistible in their beautiful art-deco design, high quality lenses and low prices. But unfortunately very difficult to take an in-focus picture with!

AndyH · Oct 5, 2019

Grim Tuesday said:
I will second this, I have spent lots of money buying folders without rangefinders. Irresistible in their beautiful art-deco design, high quality lenses and low prices. But unfortunately very difficult to take an in-focus picture with!

Here's a handy tip if you're scale focusing in this format:

You can get a laser distance measuring device at most any Home Depot, Lowe's, or Harbor Freight for less than fifty bucks. They're accurate to an inch or so (I use them daily in my work), and the laser beam allows a precise target. Depending on the model, they're accurate out to fifty to seventy five feet, and smaller than a pack of cigarettes. Pointing a laser at an unknown person on the street can cause a little conflict, but for things that don't move or for people you do know, it shouldn't be a problem.

Andy

MattKing · Oct 5, 2019

Tip number two: practice estimating distances, and develop a good mental image of a particular distance or distances.
I have good mental images of my hieght - 6 feet - and of 10 feet, and I know how long my arm is. With some practice, it is fairly easy to overlay any scene with those and come up with a reliable estimate.

Diving into the MF world! Searching for my first camera

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