Diving into the MF world! Searching for my first camera

KN4SMF · Jul 27, 2019

A Hasselblad is a good camera. If you want to go that way and can afford better, just do yourself a favor and don't just buy one off ebay and expect results any better than a box camera. That is, whatever you pay for it, double it and use the other half to go straight to a good service tech. Don't even bother to use it till then. you'll end up with poorly focused and exposed shots. Assuming that you even got that far without the camera jamming first. A properly serviced and aligned Hasselblad is quite a machine. An old serviced one is such junk I can't describe. I know every part in those things. You could throw the parts of 3 different models in a bag, shake it up, and pour them on the table and give me the time to reassemble them. And I'll hand you back 3 Hasselblads in top condition. Dastardly Simplicity. TG I sell real estate now though. No Hasselblads for me, thank you. I'd rather rebuild a Hammarlund.

RalphLambrecht · Jul 27, 2019

Black Dog said:
I have a Rolleicord and a Mamiya C330. The Rolleicord is quite light and compact compared to the C330 but no interchangeable lenses and the viewfinder is a bit of a cave as well. However, it's much more convenient to carry around all day, plus they're much cheaper than Rolleiflexes. Rangefinders are smaller and more compact than SLRs, but Ihe Bronica RF645 mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7 are the only ones I can think of with interchangeable lenses. The SLR wins hands down if you like closeups though. I'd personally pick a rangefinder for street photography and hiking ( I do lots of both). Think carefully about what pictures you currently do and what you might like to do in the future. I'm thinking about a Fuji GSW690, but they're not for people with small hands!

another vote for Mamiya6MF

John51 · Jul 27, 2019

KN4SMF said:
I had a Medalist II with a worn out shutter escapement. I worked and worked trying to get that shutter to act right. Finally came to the conclusion the shutter was a piece of crap. Total letdown. All that fine glass and rangefinder and everything else, but with a shutter that belonged on toy camera. Got rid of it and got a Mockba 4 and have been happy as a clam ever since. Not a fan of folding cameras because bellows are a weak point. So I just don't fold it up.

On my spend list for a jackpot lottery win is to have CAD files made of the Medalist shutter parts. Maybe a bit of redesign if possible. It would be an awesome camera with a decent shutter.

mooseontheloose · Jul 27, 2019

My first MF camera was TLR - a Minolta Autocord, which is an excellent camera (comparable to Rolleis) but never gets the love of that name brand. I've gone through a few, just because it was easier and cheaper to buy a new one than to pay for a CLA. I've also tried many flavours of Yashica TLRs - YashicaMat, Yashica D, Yashica 12, Yashica 124G, etc. They were quite good too. Then I thought I wanted interchangeable backs and lenses, so got a Bronica SQA (later upgraded to the SQAi). But I found I wasn't bringing all the lenses and backs with me because the weight was too much, so got a Mamiya 6 instead. It's a great camera with fantastic lenses, but the rangefinder doesn't work well with the type of photography that I like to do. So now I'm back to a TLR - finally bought a Rolleiflex, it's one of the Tessars you've been told to stay away from, but it's fantastic and I love the images from it.

Anyway, this long story is just to show that you will probably go through a variety of cameras before you settle on something that you like, so just start with one that takes your fancy and is in good working condition. If you like it, keep using it. If you don't, or you want to try something new, sell it and get another camera. There are some reliable sellers on this site, although if you can find and/or inspect some locally, that would be ideal.

Alex Varas · Jul 27, 2019

Ikoflex with Tessar are good cameras, just watch out all the so damn complicated double prevention system works fine.
I have had several TLR, folding, SLR and 6x9 cameras. If I have start again I would go for Hasselblad and Medalist II and the folder Super-Isolette that I don't why but excels in every photo.

Sirius Glass · Jul 27, 2019

KN4SMF said:
A Hasselblad is a good camera. If you want to go that way and can afford better, just do yourself a favor and don't just buy one off ebay and expect results any better than a box camera. That is, whatever you pay for it, double it and use the other half to go straight to a good service tech. Don't even bother to use it till then. you'll end up with poorly focused and exposed shots. Assuming that you even got that far without the camera jamming first. A properly serviced and aligned Hasselblad is quite a machine. An old serviced one is such junk I can't describe. I know every part in those things. You could throw the parts of 3 different models in a bag, shake it up, and pour them on the table and give me the time to reassemble them. And I'll hand you back 3 Hasselblads in top condition. Dastardly Simplicity. TG I sell real estate now though. No Hasselblads for me, thank you. I'd rather rebuild a Hammarlund.

If you got the Hasselblad route avoid eBay and go straight to www.KEH.com. First of all their prices are better than eBay. KEH is conservative about their rating and the equipment is as good or better than they advertise. They have a six month return policy no questions asked but most important if there is any problem they will fix the camera for free, Clean Lubricate and Adjust [CLA] the camera for free or send you another camera.

runswithsizzers · Jul 27, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Speak for yourself. I take my Hasselblad and lenses all the world traveling. Sometimes I take a tripod. It does not slow me down taking photographs. And my family encourages my photography. I take 6x6 negatives, never 645. And I am not the only one at Photrio that takes MF cameras on vacations. Heck many take LF.

Yes sir, as clearly stated in my post, I was speaking for myself. How could I do otherwise? I really don't know why you would want to challenge another forum member about the validity of their experience.

The OP was asking for advice about MF cameras from the perspective of a 35mm shooter. As someone who has recently made that same transition, I thought observations based on my experience might be useful.

Before I retired, I was sometimes involved in training new employees. I noticed the more senior workers were often not the best ones to train the new hires. While their experience and expertise were unquestionable, it had been so long since the expert was the "new guy" they were often unable to see the process from the perspective of a beginner. The most effective tutors for new hires were often the employees who were able to remember their own training as a relatively recent experience. And my recent experience was this: after decades of shooting 35mm, when I picked up my first medium format camera, it really slowed me down. And that was a good thing for solo walkabouts in my home town, but I would not care to test my wife's patience while on family vacation.

On the subject of how much photographic gear to carry while traveling, there is a huge spectrum of choices from a smart phone on one end, to the stereotype "full-National-Geographic-on-assignment-look" we have all seen in the National Parks of America and the tourist destinations of Europe. And not one single one of those choices is wrong. I used to be that guy on vacation with two cameras around my neck and a bag full of prime lenses, and yes, a tripod, too. But more recently, I am finding it to be very liberating to carry a single camera & lens, no camera bag, and certainly no tripod (they are actually prohibited in many destination locations). And yes, I am speaking only for myself. If others want to carry less gear or more, that is no concern of mine. But I would encourage everyone to try another style once-in-a-while, because there is no one best way. The OP says he likes to try out new stuff, so maybe we can all learn something from the new guy.

Sirius Glass · Jul 27, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Yes sir, as clearly stated in my post, I was speaking for myself. How could I do otherwise? I really don't know why you would want to challenge another forum member about the validity of their experience.

The OP was asking for advice about MF cameras from the perspective of a 35mm shooter. As someone who has recently made that same transition, I thought observations based on my experience might be useful.

Before I retired, I was sometimes involved in training new employees. I noticed the more senior workers were often not the best ones to train the new hires. While their experience and expertise were unquestionable, it had been so long since the expert was the "new guy" they were often unable to see the process from the perspective of a beginner. The most effective tutors for new hires were often the employees who were able to remember their own training as a relatively recent experience. And my recent experience was this: after decades of shooting 35mm, when I picked up my first medium format camera, it really slowed me down. And that was a good thing for solo walkabouts in my home town, but I would not care to test my wife's patience while on family vacation.

On the subject of how much photographic gear to carry while traveling, there is a huge spectrum of choices from a smart phone on one end, to the stereotype "full-National-Geographic-on-assignment-look" we have all seen in the National Parks of America and the tourist destinations of Europe. And not one single one of those choices is wrong. I used to be that guy on vacation with two cameras around my neck and a bag full of prime lenses, and yes, a tripod, too. But more recently, I am finding it to be very liberating to carry a single camera & lens, no camera bag, and certainly no tripod (they are actually prohibited in many destination locations). And yes, I am speaking only for myself. If others want to carry less gear or more, that is no concern of mine. But I would encourage everyone to try another style once-in-a-while, because there is no one best way. The OP says he likes to try out new stuff, so maybe we can all learn something from the new guy.

Well I taught for a decade in a University and I found that older employees are aware of what they were taught wrong and go out of their way to make sure that they will be remembered to teaching everything correctly.

Yes, when I change to a new format it takes longer to photograph, but that passes with experience.

If I am driving my car, I will take all my lenses. If I am flying I take either the wide angle [50mm lens], the normal lens [80mm] and depending on the location [narrow streets, alleys] the Super Wide Camera [38mm]. I used the SWC extensively in Greece and the Greek Islands. This fall due to the weight limitations I will only take the 50mm and 80mm to Australia and New Zealand.

Ariston · Jul 29, 2019

If you want to give TLRs a try without breaking the bank, I can vouch for the Minolta Autocord. I have one and love it. My only quibble is that I think the ground glass could be brighter; but I've never had the opportunity to compare it to any other TLR, so it might in fact be quite bright, relatively speaking.

youneedcoffee · Jul 29, 2019

Thanks everyone! I can't really justify Hasselblad/Mamiya 6 money yet so looking at the Mamiya m645, late Rolliecord, Fuji G680, Yashica or an Autocord. I would like a brightish screen, not too heavy, clean lenses and in good shape. Not sure on the C330, everyone talks about how heavy it is! PM me if you have anything good, I am not in a mega rush. Thanks again.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 29, 2019

Since you were a 35mm shooter like I was, you might not like the Hasselblad and a lot of the TLR and other cameras because they shoot square format (6x6). I shoot a Mamiya RB67 as it shoots 6x7. Akso, TLR type where you have a wist level finder I found difficult to do. Everything moves the opposite way which was impossible to get use to. I solved that problem by adding an eye level finder so the RB67 works like a 35mm camera. You could do that with the Hasselblad but not with a lot of the other cameras. Now the weight of the RB67 is greater than most of the others. So these three issues are probably three important consideration you should make. Interchangeable lens might be another big consideration. Some have them capability, some don't. Try them all out before you buy. Good luck. PS consider a tripod too. I use one all the time.

Grim Tuesday · Jul 29, 2019

My opinions on Autocord vs Rolleicord vs Mamiya TLR. I've had all three.

Autocord: Great lens, better than all other non-mamiya Japanese TLRs but not better than Xenar or Mamiya 80mm. Brighter screen than the Rolleicord, about on par with the Mamiya. My favorite thing about the Autocord is that it is cheap to service. Karl Bryan does them for a nominal fee. I dislike the focusing mechanism on the Autocord, it is too fragile. I think its lens coatings are better than Mamiya or Schneider (Rolleicord), which leads to very nice color images. Crank advance is nice but an unnecessary complication in my opinion. Flat film path. All in all, I regret selling my Autocord.

Rolleicord: Great lens, I think it just barely beats out the Autocord, especially at short distances. A Rolleicord III is also insanely light at around 850g. It may be the single lightest medium format camera that is not a folder. Such a simple camera, there is little that can go wrong.

Mamiya: Get a 220, not a 330. I weighed mine the other day and the C220 with WLF and 80mm lens is exactly the same weight as my Hasselblad with 80mm lens and WLF. Not bad for f2.8 medium format. And very sharp. The lens is also superb and you get the option of going for a wide-normal (65mm) or a long normal (105mm) if you wish. And it's cheap.

All three are capable of magnificently sharp images. I have been just as impressed with images that come out of the Rolleicord and Autocord as ones that come out of my Hasselblad. May have to do with mirror slap or maybe the TLRs really are just that good.

If I were you I'd get all three. But if you don't want all three, go for a rolleicord and a mamiya.

Luckless · Jul 29, 2019

youneedcoffee said:
Not sure on the C330, everyone talks about how heavy it is!

I think that's kind of the weird thing about the C330. I will kind of whine and complain about how much more it weighs than my Rolleicord, and how much more space in my bag it takes up... And yet the Rolleicord is sitting on a shelf at home while the C330 is the camera that I lugged along to the office so I could have a camera to play with on my lunch break.

If you only ever used a single lens that translates close to the 75-80mm range of most other TLRs, and never really focus closer than 3-4 feet, then any other TLR is probably for you.

If you use a range of focal lengths, or often use the equivalent of the C330's bellow's extension in your focus ranges, then the C330's weight and bulk might be something you're willing to settle on putting up with. [The C220 is lighter and gives up a few features, but still heavier than a lot of options from my understanding.]

If you're the least bit picky about anything, or have a bit of an imagination, then it is pretty easy to find something to complain about with any camera out there...

Sirius Glass · Jul 29, 2019

youneedcoffee said:
... Not sure on the C330, everyone talks about how heavy it is!

It added weight is well work carrying because of the added features. I would always choose the C330 over and C2xx.

MattKing · Jul 29, 2019

A C220 with a waist level finder, a wide angle lens and a moderate telephoto lens is just about the smallest and lightest two lens medium format kit as you will find. Add a standard lens and the resulting 3 lens kit is downright svelts (compared to other 3 lens medium format kits). The additional weight added if you use a C330 body instead isn't all that substantial.
My C330 with WLF plus 65mm and 135mm lenses and a small meter and some film fits in a bag that would be too small for most digital SLRs with zoom lenses.

afriman · Jul 29, 2019

What features make a C330 worth choosing above a C220?

Grim Tuesday · Jul 29, 2019

afriman said:
What features make a C330 worth choosing above a C220?

I prefer the C220 over C330. But the argument to be made for the C330 is it has automatic parallax indication in the viewfinder, brighter and interchangeable screens (acute-matte level except they cost $30 not $300) and automatic shutter cocking with a crank advance instead of a knob.

MattKing · Jul 29, 2019

Grim Tuesday said:
I prefer the C220 over C330. But the argument to be made for the C330 is it has automatic parallax indication in the viewfinder, brighter and interchangeable screens (acute-matte level except they cost $30 not $300) and automatic shutter cocking with a crank advance instead of a knob.

And most important, the inclusion of the second shutter release means they are compatible with the RB67/C330 left hand trigger grip, which I find greatly improves hand-held use in demanding circumstances (like weddings!) or when nearly on-camera flash is desired.
That second shutter release also makes one-hand operation almost practical - at least if you don't have to make a lot of adjustments for exposure.

Sirius Glass · Jul 29, 2019

One of the positives about the Mamiya Cxxx is that there is both a left and a right focusing knob. C330 has a left and right shutter release.

MattKing · Jul 30, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
One of the positives about the Mamiya Cxxx is that there is both a left and a right focusing knob. C330 has a left and right shutter release.

Actually, a front-right bottom shutter release that moves front-to-back, and a side right shutter release that moves top-to-bottom. The front-right bottom shutter release interfaces with the left hand trigger grip, which means with the grip you can release the shutter with your left hand.

johnha · Jul 30, 2019

Back in the day a C330f was my first 'proper' MF camera (after Lubitel), interchangeable lenses seemed such a good idea (even if only in case one lens failed). When I started looking for different lenses though I wished I'd bought a system SLR instead, used lens prices were similar and I wanted interchangeable backs as well. I'd suggest a C330 is a very good starting point, but if you're thinking of expanding it later, a system camera may be a better choice.

As for the C330f, at the time I'd have preferred a C330s, however it seems they used more plastic and have different door catch (which may be less reliable over time?).

Sirius Glass · Jul 30, 2019

MattKing said:
Actually, a front-right bottom shutter release that moves front-to-back, and a side right shutter release that moves top-to-bottom. The front-right bottom shutter release interfaces with the left hand trigger grip, which means with the grip you can release the shutter with your left hand.

Its been over ten years since I handled a C330.

Grim Tuesday · Jul 30, 2019

johnha said:
Back in the day a C330f was my first 'proper' MF camera (after Lubitel), interchangeable lenses seemed such a good idea (even if only in case one lens failed). When I started looking for different lenses though I wished I'd bought a system SLR instead, used lens prices were similar and I wanted interchangeable backs as well. I'd suggest a C330 is a very good starting point, but if you're thinking of expanding it later, a system camera may be a better choice.

As for the C330f, at the time I'd have preferred a C330s, however it seems they used more plastic and have different door catch (which may be less reliable over time?).

I have found C330 lenses to be on the affordable side... The best two lenses in the system, the 105D and 180 super go for $90-110 and the only one selling for around $200 is the 55. All other lenses are on the $60-90 range. Of course you can pay more if you want to buy into blue dot shutter hype (which is fake). Another bonus of the 330 lenses is they are usually incredibly easy to disassemble and remove fungus or haze.

MattKing · Jul 30, 2019

Grim Tuesday said:
you can pay more if you want to buy into blue dot shutter hype (which is fake)

Depends on whether repair-ability.
The blue dot shutters are a lot newer than many of the predecessors, and there are lots of them out there.

Luckless · Jul 31, 2019

Grim Tuesday said:
I have found C330 lenses to be on the affordable side... The best two lenses in the system, the 105D and 180 super go for $90-110 and the only one selling for around $200 is the 55. All other lenses are on the $60-90 range. Of course you can pay more if you want to buy into blue dot shutter hype (which is fake). Another bonus of the 330 lenses is they are usually incredibly easy to disassemble and remove fungus or haze.

Blue dot might be overhyped, [And rather error prone due to some older models having received a 'fake' blue dot 'somewhere along the line', or real blue dot lenses having lost their dot] but the black shutter lenses with aperture and time scales on the same side are a lot nicer to work with.

However, the older gen lenses aren't hard to modify to achieve the same effect if you're at all handy.

[Which reminds me, I really need to clear a workspace soon and swap the shutter blades around on a pair of 180mm chromes that have been sitting in the cupboard for months now.]

Diving into the MF world! Searching for my first camera

KN4SMF

RalphLambrecht

John51

mooseontheloose

Alex Varas

Sirius Glass

runswithsizzers

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Ariston

youneedcoffee

Alan Edward Klein

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Luckless

Sirius Glass

MattKing

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