Distilled Water shortage?

[Adrian Bacon]

With 4 gallons of distilled water in the basement, I'm not in panic mode - yet. But my better half reports that in the last week or two, the crazies have wiped the distilled water shelves clean. Are you guys seeing the same thing? I've used this for making most of my chems... so now I'm thinking it's Brita Time. Not sure about this. What are you folks doing?

yes. I’m down to 2 gallons and using it as sparingly as possible. I use tap water for one shot stuff, but distilled for mixing stock developer solution and developer replenishment. I may have to invest in either a water filter or switch to filtered water until I can get distilled water back in hand.

I know you can technically use tap water for everything, but I prefer my developers to have a higher standard than that.

 

[Louis Nargi]

I'v used the water from my de- humidifier for years. The condensate is distilled water, I then pour it though a coffee filter to filter out any solid particles that might have fallen in

 

[fgorga]

The reservoir tank in a de-humidifier will be as good as distilled water and free of impurities. It should still be boiled because it can harbour the legionella virus if left for any length of time.

The Legionella organism is a bacterium not a virus.

 

[fgorga]

Very helpful! Thank you for that mini lesson!

You are quite welcome!

 

[fgorga]

I don't know your location but in the US the FDA governs the labeling of bottled water. "Purified water" can be labeled as such and achieved by various means (RO, distilled, etc) because the term purified water describes the result rather than the process. But if the bottle says "distilled" it must be distilled. Process vs result.

The bottle I have is labeled "distilled", and in addition to identifying the source of the water also adds how it was processed: Steam distillation, micron filtration, ultraviolet light, and ozonation. And it costs less than a buck a gallon, about the same as RO water.

Thank for that information. I live in New England, but I haven't paid any attention to commercial bottled water since I have never seen a need for it at home.

When I was working in the lab, we had glass stills and then, more recently, RO based water polishing systems that gave really, really, really pure water.

 

[jvo]

Retired chemist speaking here... wants to clear up some misconceptions about water.
...I hope that this is helpful,

--- Frank

yes, that really was quite helpful, thank you.

p.s. you obviously don't chime in often, when you do its worthwhile!

 

[Mal Paso]

I have the APEC RO System from Amazon, about $190. Gets the 200 ppm hard water down to 12 ppm. I've had almost 4 years service so far, no problems. I mix all my stock solutions with ro water as well as final rinse.

 

[Anon Ymous]

My only basis for that concern is statements (on Photo.net, I think, and some years ago) that seasonal variations in water content had caused seasonal variations in negative density/contrast for a PC-TEA user who lived far from cities and had a well.

Somehow, this information makes it a bit more plausible. This could be the ridiculously diluted developer, combined with well water, not even tap water. There might be some truth to it, who knows.

 

[Agulliver]

I’m running short of distilled water to make emulsion and it’s been cleared off the store shelves, so I’ve been looking at a deionizer / RO kit to install and eliminate that dependancy.
Iron has a significant impact on emulsion speed, which my well water has quite a bit of, along with fluorine. So yeah.

-Jason

A deioniser is a lot cheaper to buy than a still, and for the purposes of emulsion making probably just as good. I think running costs are lower as is water usage. At work I use a still which requires a constant water supply and produces up to 4 litres of 99.9% pure water per hour...using a 3kW heater and of course a lot of "waste" water. Either system is quite easy to install especially if you have laboratory taps already installed which accept neoprene tubing. The deionisers should work for 10 years with minimal maintenance. So it takes a working day to fill my 25 litre aspirator, with all the associated electricity and water usage. Personally I would strongly consider a deioniser in your situation as you need a supply of "pure" water that you can rely on....be more self sufficient.

BTW I am taking the opportunity of being away from work to get more acquainted with the quarter plates I bought from you a couple of years ago. Great to see Analogue Wonderland over here now stocks them...probably going to try the "speed plates" at some point.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Many years ago I purchased a tabletop steam distiller from Waterwise in Leesburg, FL, you can find them at waterwise.com. It has more than paid for itself, including the energy costs, as compared with purchasing distilled water at the market. I originally used it to run a winter humidifier, but now it serves my photography. I use DW for mixing stock solutions, working solutions of developer, and final rinses for film developing. For everything else I use tap water (which in my area is actually pretty good and would probably be fine for all my needs).

 

[warden]

Thank for that information. I live in New England, but I haven't paid any attention to commercial bottled water since I have never seen a need for it at home.

When I was working in the lab, we had glass stills and then, more recently, RO based water polishing systems that gave really, really, really pure water.

I forgot to say welcome to the forum!

And I agree, for most photographic purposes (certainly mine) RO is plenty pure enough. My only use for purified water is the final rinse.

 

[tezzasmall]

I often wonder is distilled water in the US what we call de-ionised water in Europe. I know that in Ireland where I live distilled water is around the equivalent of $10 a litre. I only use distiller water for wet plate chemistry mixing, tap water for everything else

Wow - $10 A LITRE!?!?!?!

I get mine from my local Asda for about £4 - £5 for a 5 litre container, which is a lot, lot cheaper. It's worth shopping around if you don't have a bigger supermarket close by, although some of the smaller shops and garages sell it as ironing water, or car battery top up water, at a much cheaper price than you are currently paying.

Btw, I only use it for the last rinses of my films, so it lasts a while. The rest of my other water is put through a decent photo water filter, which may even be doing exactly the same thing as buying the bottled stuff? Anyone know about this?

Back to reading the rest of the theads...

Terry S
UK

 

[Old_Dick]

Walmart in N.H. is £.8, 3.79 liters. No taxes.

 

[Nodda Duma]

A deioniser is a lot cheaper to buy than a still, and for the purposes of emulsion making probably just as good. I think running costs are lower as is water usage. At work I use a still which requires a constant water supply and produces up to 4 litres of 99.9% pure water per hour...using a 3kW heater and of course a lot of "waste" water. Either system is quite easy to install especially if you have laboratory taps already installed which accept neoprene tubing. The deionisers should work for 10 years with minimal maintenance. So it takes a working day to fill my 25 litre aspirator, with all the associated electricity and water usage. Personally I would strongly consider a deioniser in your situation as you need a supply of "pure" water that you can rely on....be more self sufficient.

BTW I am taking the opportunity of being away from work to get more acquainted with the quarter plates I bought from you a couple of years ago. Great to see Analogue Wonderland over here now stocks them...probably going to try the "speed plates" at some point.

thanks for that.. I was paying $0.80 a gallon, which was hard to justify switching away from. Sales have dropped off, I assume from Coronavirus. when they Pick up again I’ll peel off some funds to get a deionizer / RO system.


I know the slower plates were giving you problems. They are tricky to work with, as were the historical plates from the early 1880s. The 25 speed plates are a bit more, ah, forgiving.

 

[Agulliver]

t


I know the slower plates were giving you problems. They are tricky to work with, as were the historical plates from the early 1880s. The 25 speed plates are a bit more, ah, forgiving.

I am enjoying using them, and would probably have an easier time if I wasn't developing in ID-11 but I've experimented enough to get good results now. Using a one-of-a-kind 55 year old hand built "bitzer" camera with possibly century old darkslides is a challenge. But the one thing I currently have lots of is time! Of the 8 I have shot I think I am happy with two, another two are OK. It's certainly been fun. Could you advise me on if it's safe to clean the emulsion side with IPA?

Not to hijack the thread...how much distilled water do you generally go through in a month? I'm wondering about cost effectiveness of installing your own deionising system vs relying on buying supplies of distilled or deionised water.

 

[Nodda Duma]

The emulsion is hardened, but still delicate compared to modern film. I’ve never had luck wiping down the emulsion side without scratching it up.

You can try this though: To clean the emulsion side, I would resoak it in water then gently wipe your fingers across it underwater. If you have water spots then you can dunk it in a photo-flo solution and set vertically to dry.

Before coronavirus hit, I was using about 10-15 gallons distilled / month, primarily for emulsion-making. I use tapwater (we have good water) for the washing needed to prep glass, but that would be better served by distilled although it would need to be pressurized (think household RO/deionizing kit). That would add another 30+ gallons. I expect the demand to increase when the plate holders are available so it was starting to make sense to look at a deionizer, but coronavirus is grinding all the progress on holders to a frustrating crawl.

 

[koraks]

Wow - $10 A LITRE!?!?!?!

I get mine from my local Asda for about £4 - £5 for a 5 litre container, which is a lot, lot cheaper. It's worth shopping around if you don't have a bigger supermarket close by, although some of the smaller shops and garages sell it as ironing water, or car battery top up water, at a much cheaper price than you are currently paying.

I think you may have overlooked the essence of the message you responded to. His point was that there's a difference between distilled and de-ionized or demineralized water. I think everywhere in Europe it's fairly simple to find de-ionized or demineralized water for about €0.50/ltr in a local supermarket, DIY store etc. Confusingly, some of these stores sell de-ionized water as distilled water, while it's rather unlikely that it's actually distilled given the price point. I just did a quick search and the only place I could find that sells distilled water in my country asks around €4/ltr for it.

Of course, for amateur photo chemistry, in 95% of the applications, plain tap water is perfectly fine (I'd say 99% if your tap water is halfway decent, but we're not all that fortunate). Of the remaining 5%, 99.8% of the applications will do fine with either demineralized, deionized or distilled water. The virtually negligible remainder actually requires distilled water - and then we're talking about applications such as pretty advanced emulsion making.
So for all intents or purposes, either tap water or demi water are just fine.
The recipes calling for 'distilled' water are in virtually all cases over-specifying for no apparent reason other than lack of awareness.

 

[jmoche]

I often wonder is distilled water in the US what we call de-ionised water in Europe. I know that in Ireland where I live distilled water is around the equivalent of $10 a litre. I only use distiller water for wet plate chemistry mixing, tap water for everything else

A couple of years ago my wife and I visited the UK. She uses a CPAP machine that requires distilled water. We searched all over trying to find it, even going to a hospital in London. We finally found some by chance at a druggist in Bath at what seemed to us as a ridiculously high price. As for our local supplies, no issues with distilled water though "drinking" water is in short supply.

 

[Disconnekt]

Not to hijack the thread...how much distilled water do you generally go through in a month? I'm wondering about cost effectiveness of installing your own deionising system vs relying on buying supplies of distilled or deionised water.

I don't shoot that much film a month (~2 rolls of b&w film a month), so a gallon of distilled water will develop those 2 rolls, so I just buy a gallon of distilled water from where-ever I can find it (dollar store, walmart, stater bros, etc.) once a month.

 

[pentaxuser]

Frankly I wouldn't worry, Not all crazies are there to make things worse by stripping supermarket shelves . One crazy wants to return the U.S. to normal in a matter of days so a distilled water shortage becomes a thing of the past - like a nightmare that you wake up from, realising it was never real in the first place. There may be a downside to this of course

pentaxuser

 

[scheimfluger_77]

The reservoir tank in a de-humidifier will be as good as distilled water and free of impurities. It should still be boiled because it can harbour the legionella virus if left for any length of time.

Before my de-humidifier died i wondered if this wasn’t the case. I didn’t think about the boiling though, good idea.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

I expect the distilled water run is for CPAP machines, I’m one of those.

IIRC other discussions about this topic, PE indicated that Kodak formulated their chemicals to function properly in average tap water.

 

[destroya]

I bought a home distiller for my photo needs. makes 1 gallon and i let it run overnight. takes about 8 hours. gotta say, what is left in the bottom of the tank does not make me feel good about the bay area water supply. that being said, i have been drinking it and the lack of any off putting smells and tastes makes drinking tap water almost impossible now. oh yeh, my sodium level dropped 50% in 2 months and my bad cholesterol dropped 15%, just from drinking the distilled water.

I have had the machine for about 6 years now and it has paid for itself, even with distilled water being $1 a gallon here. I use it to make stocks for all me developing chams as well as final rinse. never had any drying marks on any negs or slides.

john

 

[Uncle Chichi]

Lastly, a word about hard water (high calcium and/or magnesium)... this should not be a problem with photographic chemistry as neither metal is redox active. However, hard water, including hard water softened by adding salt, can cause problems with spotting on negatives. The water evaporates leaving the salts behind. In this case, a final rinse with purified water is certainly warranted.

I hope that this is helpful,

--- Frank

Super helpful!! I've wondered about that as I have some crazy hard water, even with the use of a whole-house softener. It's nice to have some more info in my arsenal – thank you!!

 

[Roger Thoms]

I was so excited to find 4 bottles of distilled water at the Walgreens near my house. Funny that it was easier to find C41 and E6 Chemistry than distilled water. I don’t get it, plenty of spring water and Infant water on the shelves, but a run on the distilled.

Roger