Distagon 50mm C vs CF?

[Duceman]

One lens that I've been looking to add to my Hassy kit is a 50mm. I currently have an 80mm Planar, 150mm Sonnar and a 250mm Sonnar. The 80 and 150 are CF lenses, while the 250 is a C lens.

As I've been perusing the internets on various sites, I'm seeing that the CF lenses are presently nearly twice the price of the corresponding C lens in 50mm (both being T* coated). As I shoot the 80 and 150 a lot more than the 250, I am naturally more used to the locking EV button that the CF has. But, besides that, I am not really sure that the CF lenses are twice as better than the C lens. Or am I missing something?

Regardless if I go C or CF, I'll most likely be sending it in for a CLA, so it's not that I'm looking for a "newer" lens to avoid that.

 

[Photomultiplier]

I have a similar kit. 80, 150 and 250 all CF and a 50 C T*

According to my sales manual from 1986, the CF Distagon 50 has the same glass as the older C Distagon. But there is a newer Distagon 50 FLE which stands for floating elements which allow you to optimize the performance for shorter distances because the
plain Distagon 50 is optimized for infinity. http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/lds/CF50FLE.pdf

A further advantage of either CF Version of the 50 would be the use of B60 filter bayonets, so you can use the same filters as for the other CF lenses (aside from vignetting issues or so)
The C Distagon has a 67mm thread but with a different pitch than the metric 67mm filter threads commonly found, so the filters can be screwed in carefully(!) only about one turn or so and then they get stuck easily.
I think they are called Series VII or 63 Filters if i am not mistaken.

Chris

 

[Sirius Glass]

Stick to the CF or later lenses. They all are more ergonomic, except for the a few they use the B60 filters so that you only need to buy one set of filters thus saving money, and replacement parts especially springs are still available. The only two lenses that I have that are C lenses are the 30mm Fisheye and the 500mm Tele-Tessar, which were so damned cheap that I could not walk away from the offers.

 

[Alan9940]

I agree with Sirius Glass; stick with a CF or newer lens over the C. If you don't ever plan to own a focal plane shuttered Hasselblad, you might take a look at the CB version. I've read that the CB lens line uses the same shutter spring as the CF line and probably other interchangeable parts. This is not necessarily the case with the CFi lenses. Long ago, I saw a resolution test matching CF against CB and the CF's were deemed a tad sharper; though I really doubt you'd ever notice it in real prints or transparencies.

 

[Duceman]

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep my eyes open for a CF lens.

 

[mrosenlof]

Lots of people have the same lens kit you do.

I'll disagree with the majority and say that the C T* 50 is a fine lens, if the glass is in good shape of course. You can buy a lot of film for the price difference from the CF. If you plan to use it for a lot of closer work, the FLE version might be worth it.

I've been happy with mine, but I'll readily admit that I'm much more of a long lens user. FWIW...

 

[Duceman]

I ended up purchasing a CF lens built in '87. Awaiting shipment thereof. Will post details as to its condition upon its arrival. My first Hassy purchase in over a decade. Getting excited to see it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I ended up purchasing a CF lens built in '87. Awaiting shipment thereof. Will post details as to its condition upon its arrival. My first Hassy purchase in over a decade. Getting excited to see it.

Good start, but you really need to stimulate the economy so buy more Hasselblad CF lenses.

 

[Duceman]

Good start, but you really need to stimulate the economy so buy more Hasselblad CF lenses.

My lens kit is finished (50/80/150/250).

Next, might look for an extra A12 back... or.... get an A16.

 

[Sirius Glass]

My lens kit is finished (50/80/150/250).

Next, might look for an extra A12 back... or.... get an A16.

Oh, but you NEED either the SWC or 30mm Fisheye or BOTH!

 

[aoresteen]

Back in the 80s I bought a chrome 50mm Distagon that was a mid 60s single coated version. Worst 'Blad lens I ever owned. In the 90's I bought a nice black C T* 50mm Distagon. It is an outstanding lens - I still use it with my 500C kit. If you can find a T* C 50mm I would give it a try..

 

[aoresteen]

Oh, but you NEED either the SWC or 30mm Fisheye or BOTH!

Well My 40mm lens for my 'Blad is a Mamiya 35mm lens on a 1000S body w/ waist level finder. A lot cheaper!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well My 40mm lens for my 'Blad is a Mamiya 35mm lens on a 1000S body w/ waist level finder. A lot cheaper!

But, and this is a big but, it is not rectilinearly correct. If you have not experienced rectilinearly correct you are missing a lot and do no know it.

 

[mcrokkorx]

I've owned all the 50mm Distagon versions over the years, eventually settling on the CF FLE (floating element version). It seems to me the best combination of price, handling, filter size and optical performance. The CF non-floating version has the same optics as the older C version: a good value at the right price, but they often seem to sell for nearly the same as the newer superior floating version. The latest priciest CFi version has the same optics as the CF FLE, in a newer barrel with smoother focus feel and premium shutter spring (but annoying 70mm filter fittings).

The older C versions can be optically excellent, but the ergonomics are terrible (extremely heavy focus feel with brutal serrated metal focus ring located flush with the camera body is neither fast nor fun to operate). If you use filters, the C version makes life difficult with its obsolete Series 8 drop-in size (the original filter retaining ring and/or hood has gone missing from many 50mm C lenses, standard 67mm will fit in a pinch but can easily get frozen stuck). If you don't use filters much the C version can be a bargain, but opt for the T* multi-coating if at all possible (this is a multi-element mid-1960s wide angle optic that benefits more from T* than the 80, 150 or 250).

Re the CB lens series, it should be noted the 50mm focal length was not offered in a CB version. The CB series was limited to four focal lengths only: 60mm, 80mm, 160mm and 120 Makro. Of these, the 60mm CB is optically identical to all earlier or later 60mm versions (and arguably the best price/feature version of all). The 120mm Makro CB is optically identical to the CF or CFi versions, but was priced lower when new. The 120mm Makro CB is very rare in most countries, not many were distributed, so don't look for it. 160mm CB is a Tessar design, different from the similar 150mm Sonnar. Good lens, but a bit slow at f/4.8 and today not dramatically cheaper second hand than the more versatile 150mm CF. The 80mm CB Planar has a simplified 6-element design vs the 7-element C, CF and CFe . Performance of the 80mm CB is very slightly different: a bit sharper in the center while a bit softer in the corners. More significant is the nicer CB focus feel and newer shutter: buyers have caught wise to this, so the CB isn't discounted today much as it was a few years ago.

 

[Arthurwg]

My 60mm CB lens is wonderful. Some say it has one less element than the CF version but they are mistaken. Glass is the same.

 

[mcrokkorx]

Yes, the 60mm CB is wonderful: probably my favorite Hasselblad lens. Same glass and focus barrel as the CFi but at drastically lower cost. All you give up with the CB is the newer Nivarox mainspring and the dedicated "F" setting to make use with focal plane shutter bodies more convenient (neither feature is crucial to 90% of present-day Hasselblad users). The same applies to the CB Makro, which is unfortunately very scarce. The 160mm CB was a completely new lens with different optics from the similar 150mm CF: lightweight lens with good performance but rather slow aperture for the focal length.

As mentioned earlier, only the 80mm CB had one less element than the "premium" 80mm: how significant this is to real-world imaging performance is hard to say definitively. Overall it is similar to the standard 7-element Planar but with a very slightly different performance balance across the frame. The CB version is often the preferred 80 by digital 'blad shooters, because it maximizes sharpness in the center crop used by the 33x44 sensors in typical digital backs. On film, its hard to reliably identify 80 CB images apart from 80 CF images. Those who reflexively knock the 80 CB tend to forget Zeiss did not simply remove one element: they redesigned the 80 Planar for the first time in 30 years with the aid of mid-1990s computing power. Had it been marketed as a CF instead of CB, it would have been far less controversial.

 

[aoresteen]

But, and this is a big but, it is not rectilinearly correct. If you have not experienced rectilinearly correct you are missing a lot and do no know it.

I knew that when I bought the Mamiya 35mm 645 lens. It's not a Distagon. Not a big but to me. It was $1,500 less than the Hassy 40mm. It does a superb job IMHO. 16x20 B&W prints look fine - unless you photograph brick walls and expect straight lines.

.........

The older C versions can be optically excellent, but the ergonomics are terrible (extremely heavy focus feel with brutal serrated metal focus ring located flush with the camera body is neither fast nor fun to operate). If you use filters, the C version makes life difficult with its obsolete Series 8 drop-in size (the original filter retaining ring and/or hood has gone missing from many 50mm C lenses, standard 67mm will fit in a pinch but can easily get frozen stuck). If you don't use filters much the C version can be a bargain, but opt for the T* multi-coating if at all possible (this is a multi-element mid-1960s wide angle optic that benefits more from T* than the 80, 150 or 250).........

I have never been bothered by the Series 8 filters. I have all I need. Heliopan & B&W still make them.- B&H sells them. As long as they are being made & used Series 8 filters are not "obsolete". I still use Series 7 & Series 6 & Series 5 filters. My hood has never gotten stuck. The knurled ring has never bothered me either.

 

[mcrokkorx]

I have never been bothered by the Series 8 filters. I have all I need. Heliopan & B&W still make them.- B&H sells them. As long as they are being made & used Series 8 filters are not "obsolete". I still use Series 7 & Series 6 & Series 5 filters.

Series 8 is "obsolete" in terms of being a royal PITA for many less-than-patient Hasselblad owners whose only lens that requires Series 8 is the old 50mm Distagon C. If all your other lenses are B50 or B60, that one Series 8 lens requiring a separate set of filters can be annoying, as nice as the Heliopan or B&W Series 8 filters may be. Yes, Hasselblad once offered some nice adapters to mount Series 8 on B50/B60, but... yuck. I'm certainly glad the expense and inconvenience aren't dealbreakers in your work, but some of us do find the filter mismatch irritating enough to choose a different version of the 50mm Distagon.

My hood has never gotten stuck.

Didn't mean to imply the Series 8 Hasselblad hood gets stuck: I never experienced that with mine, either. I was referring to generic 67mm threaded (non-Series 8) filters and hoods: these must be used very carefully, only screwed in a little bit, otherwise they can strip the Series 8 barrel threads and get stuck. These days, many examples of the 50mm Distagon C are missing both their original Series 8 hood and Series 8 filter retaining ring, prompting more and more Hasselblad newbies to experiment with generic 67mm accessories. That can be risky.

The knurled ring has never bothered me either.

This is down to sample variation and personal taste.

The metal knurled focus ring sitting flush with the camera mount didn't bother me nearly as much with my 80mm C as it did with my 60mm and 50mm Distagon C lenses. My Distagon C focus rings were even more heavily damped (resistant to turning) than my already-heavy 80mm C: that turning force combined with the unpleasant metal knurling scraping my fingers against the body were enough to finally move me toward the CF and CB versions instead. Regretfully, I must add: the build quality and appearance of the original C lenses is one of the most attractive aspects of the Hasselblad system. The later CF and CB versions are easier on the hands to operate, but never look right on the stylized 'blad camera bodies (plus the easily worn off cheaply-painted focus/aperture/shutter numbers and flimsy breakage-prone plastic barrel parts are appalling in lenses that originally retailed for more than the price of a used car).

I bought and resold five Series 8 50mm Distagons before giving up and moving to the CF FLE: two single coated silver C, one silver CT*, and two black CT*. Of these, four tore my hands apart during focusing and one was reasonably comfortable. My final black 50mm C T* had a velvety-smooth focus damping unlike any other C lens I've ever used. I thought I'd found my keeper, but then it developed an aperture stop down problem that David Odess quoted me $445 to repair. Given it was easy to find clean 50mm CF FLE lenses for $699 at that time (six years ago), I took it as an omen I should migrate to the newer, uglier but more ergonomic CF lenses.

 

[aoresteen]

Yes, this is down to "sample variation and personal taste".

My 50mm C T* is a good one so I am happy. My earlier 50 chrome was a dog optically. After 4 or 5 rolls I stopped using it and sold it (with full disclosure of it's faults).

My C kit is easy to use. My C lenses are the 50mm Distagon - Series 8 filters, a wonderful early 7-element 80mm Planar, B50 filters, a 150mm B50 filters, & the 250mm B50 filters. All my B50 lenses have 52mm adapter rings so I carry a stack of 52mm filters. I carry Skylight, Yellow 12, and Red 25 in Series 8 which take no real space at all in my bag, practically speaking. 90% of the tine I use the Y12 with the 50mm so changing filters is not a big deal to me.

A bigger deal are my F lenses: 50mm FLE 86mm filter, 80mm B50 filter, 110mm B77 filter, & 150mm B77 filter. Most of the time I select two lenses and leave the rest home. I take a Skylight and Yellow 12 filters with me most of the time..

 

[Sirius Glass]

The metal knurled aperture and shutter interlocking tabs are a pain, however for what I paid for my Fisheye and 500mm lenses were so cheap inexpensive that I put up with them as necessary.

 

[Duceman]

Lens showed up a couple of days ago. Looks great. Didn't come with a lens cover though... d'oh! Small thing to get one, but I didn't realize that it was not included in the listing.

However, I did notice what appears to be a slight bit of oil on the tip of one of the shutter blades (red arrow pointing to it). It doesn't seem to affect anything. Should I be concerned about this? If it is oil, I'm sure it will be taken care of at its next CLA.

 

[BrianShaw]

Look closer. To me that looks like an (intentionally) bent tip. Exactly as designed.

Congratulations on the new lens; I hope it brings you much enjoyment!

 

[mcrokkorx]

Its difficult to say for sure from your pic, but that looks more like the upturned tip of the leading shutter blade. This was normal for the CF lenses and nothing to worry about. Of course you need to be sure: wind the advance knob to cock the shutter, take the lens off the camera, and fire the shutter using the tiny collared pin on the lens bayonet. The leaves will close again, allowing you to get a closer look. If it isn't the folded tiip of the shutter leaf, and really does seem to be oil or debris, try to get a better clearer pic.

IMPORTANT: after examining the closed shutter, immediately use a coin in the round key slot to wind and re-cock the shutter so it locks open. This can be a little tricky, you may need to turn the lens and coin in opposite directions using both hands. Don't stop turning the coin until the shutter latches open (this point is inevitably just a little further than is comfortable without contorting your hands). Hasselblad lenses must always remain cocked when off the camera body.

The lens looks to be in beautiful condition overall: congrats and enjoy!

 

[Duceman]

Look closer. To me that looks like an (intentionally) bent tip. Exactly as designed.

Its difficult to say for sure from your pic, but that looks more like the upturned tip of the leading shutter blade. This was normal for the CF lenses and nothing to worry about.

Upon inspecting my two other CF lenses (which were CLA'd just a few months ago), I can confirm that what I was concerned about in the above photos is indeed the upturned tip of the leading shutter blade... it just looks more pronounced.

Thanks!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Its difficult to say for sure from your pic, but that looks more like the upturned tip of the leading shutter blade. This was normal for the CF lenses and nothing to worry about. Of course you need to be sure: wind the advance knob to cock the shutter, take the lens off the camera, and fire the shutter using the tiny collared pin on the lens bayonet. The leaves will close again, allowing you to get a closer look. If it isn't the folded tiip of the shutter leaf, and really does seem to be oil or debris, try to get a better clearer pic.

IMPORTANT: after examining the closed shutter, immediately use a coin in the round key slot to wind and re-cock the shutter so it locks open. This can be a little tricky, you may need to turn the lens and coin in opposite directions using both hands. Don't stop turning the coin until the shutter latches open (this point is inevitably just a little further than is comfortable without contorting your hands). Hasselblad lenses must always remain cocked when off the camera body.

The lens looks to be in beautiful condition overall: congrats and enjoy!

There is a screw driver tool that is built to recock the lens that is safer and easier to use.