Discussion on flash to recreate press photo look in sports

[Luckless]

I'm considering a project for this summer to photograph a roller derby tournament with an old TLR on black and white film, and thought I would post here to throw some ideas around and maybe get some input from anyone who has attempted something similar.

My thought was to purchase something like a Godox AD360 (Or similar modern bare bulb portable flash) on a grip for my C330f, and use that as a directed flash and a fairly narrow aperture and single point light for a very harsh and aggressive look.

Will do some test runs early in the season to see which film I prefer for the task, and there is also the debate about whether the single on camera flash is going to be too aggressive, or if I should add in my rovelight as well. (The players were very impressed by the digital I produced last season while using the rovelight in a 7' reflector umbrella, and I figure something like the AD360 might pair well with my existing kit while I explore film.)

Any thoughts on the matter with regards to a light setup for such a project?

 

[BrianShaw]

If you want to recreate the old look then single flash and fast grainy film helps get you there. I've done that with both strobe and bulbs. Bulbs is the best way to re-live (not re-create) the old press photographer days! Some players and officials might ibject to flash as being disruptive. But that wasn't too common, just annoying when it happened.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Use flash bulbs.

 

[AgX]

What would be the difference in using bulbs, bare tubes or shielded reflectors?

Only at very close distance to the subject the offset of the flashlight to the optical axis, and to a smaller effect the reflector Diameter, would matter.

A greater effect would have the flash-exposure times for incandescant flash vs. electronic flash.

 

[GregW]

I agree, bulbs, right next to the camera. alla Arbus.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

A greater effect would have the flash-exposure times for incandescant flas vs. electronic flash.

This is one big difference. The ultra-sharp strobe effect of modern electronic flash arises from the use of extremely short flash durations, where duration is used to control output. Thousandths, if not ten-thousanths, of a second. It's a much, much higher effective shutter speed.

Standard medium-peak flash bulbs, on the other hand, burn for about 1/25 of a second total. (The 'M' bulb shutter delay is roughly about 20 milliseconds to peak, so full start-to-finish burn is about 40 milliseconds, or about 1/25 second).

That longer burn time allows camera and subject movement during exposure to more naturally come into play. And that, together with those larger 5- and 7-inch bulb reflectors, helps achieve a softer-edged vintage flash look that electronic strobe users cannot as easily produce, and viewers are today not so familiar with seeing.

Ken

 

[Luckless]

I've had to rule out use of actual flashbulbs for this project due to safety risks (Track side photography of live games, and possibly shooting from the centre at times. Can't say I'm keen on the risks of a bulb failure.)

However that is a very good point about just how long their duration is. I knew that they were very slow lights, but I honestly had forgotten they were down to that slow and was thinking it was closer to 1/125-250th which isn't far off from what some electronic flashes can do in the right modes at high power. Might need far more testing than I was initially thinking to get this project to look the way I'm going for.

Wonder how comparable a small on-camera hot-light would be to old flashbulbs for the effect.

 

[BrianShaw]

What risks? Shattering bulbs is extremely rare. Burns from handling bulbs maybe, but not if one pays attention.

 

[mweintraub]

What about barebulb flashes like the Streaklight 360, Godox Ad360, Q Flash, etc?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Flash bulbs were used for decades with very few problems.

 

[Luckless]

What risks? Shattering bulbs is extremely rare. Burns from handling bulbs maybe, but not if one pays attention.

The risks of setting of burning magnesium less than 10 feet from active players while a game is going on? Risks of dropping and breaking bulbs track side while changing for the next shot?

I've seen multiple flash bulbs fail in a hazardous manner, but the only flash tube I've yet blown (while over charging it) still remained contained within the flash unit.

If this was planned for a studio shoot where the photography was the primary purpose of the event, and could halt everything while we carefully cleaned everything up and weren't disrupting a game, then sure I could consider going with flash bulbs for the effect if I couldn't replicate it with more modern flashes. However I'm photographing live games, not studio events.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The risks of setting of burning magnesium less than 10 feet from active players while a game is going on?

This is not really a problem.

Risks of dropping and breaking bulbs track side while changing for the next shot?

Flash bulbs are rather robust. To break one, you would really have to stomp on it and chances are that it will just shoot away in one piece.

 

[ic-racer]

There seemed to be a trend in cameras to use flash as "Fill In" where by, in auto mode, the camera tries to let in lots of ambient light with wider apertures or slower shutter speeds. I would call that a contemporary look which is what you don't want. The way I would recreate the traditional B&W reportage 'look' is to use small apertures and fast shutter speeds and a very powerful flash. Remember the common TLR cameras of the day had a synch speed of 1/500. I cannot tell the difference between flash bulbs or strobe in photographs. If anyone here thinks they can; I have some pictures to show you...

 

[AgX]

Flash bulbs were used for decades with very few problems.

Back then bulbs were new, now they all are decades old. But one can use a plastic shield over the reflector for added safety.

I never had a flash bulb shatter, but I only used resin coated ones so far.
I once had 1000W halogen bulb explode. A disaster for me. Blood all over. I wish nobody to experience that.
I'll start a thread on that sometime.

 

[John Koehrer]

When were the originals shot? It's at least, if not more likely that the pictures were shot with a Speed Graphic rather than a TLR.
Many of the shutters for the Graphics didn't have speeds as high as 1/500.

 

[AgX]

Graflexes were a very american thing.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If you want it done correctly, use the right tools: press camera [Crown or Speed Graphic] and flash bulbs.

 

[John Koehrer]

Graflexes were a very american thing.

Canadiens weren't familiar with Graphics then? Or maybe they're film didn't fit being 5X4.

 

[BrianShaw]

Canadians are Americans too, eh?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Graflexes were a very american thing.

In the past Graflexes and Graphics have been known to cross the borders into Canada in large numbers. It would be more accurate to say that Graflexes and Graphics are North American with some known to have crossed the Atlantic Ocean. The Brits heavily taxed them after World War II.

 

[juan]

I've thought about getting an old flash off of ebay, then putting the reflector on a bare bulb modern flash. It won't have the length of flash or the power, but that should help get the proper flash angles.
juan

 

[removed account4]

luckless.
get a cold shoe and a lumedyne or similar flash that is high powered and has a fast cycle rate
the typical head can be used bare or with a reflector or globe. have fun
john

 

[MattKing]

Canadians are Americans too, eh?

Sorry

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Sorry

No need for apologies. We'll let you naturalize. Then you too can be a member of the Animal House.

Bluto Blutarski is our friend. As I recall, didn't he become Senator Blutarski??



Ken

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Use flash unit with large round reflector, and it will look like flash bulb. Quantum?