Discontinued film worth hording?

skorpiius · Sep 24, 2015

First of all, if there is a more appropriate section of the forum for this please let me know.

I'm recently back in to film photography after about 10-12 years, and of course got caught up on all of the film products which have been discontinued.

I realize that buying new is key to keep the existing production lines operating, but I'm wondering what people's opinions are on any discontinued film that:

a) is still available expired (or soon to be expired)
b) can still be processed as intended (ie not Kodachrome)

That was so good that it is still worth finding on ebay, etc

For me, the only one I have come up with is Fuji FP3000b, the only black and white film made for the Polaroid 250 land camera I have coming in the mail, and possibly the slightly older FP100b which apparently has substantially better image quality being that it's 100 iso vs 3000.

Thoughts?

Anyone have frozen film that once it runs out it's so key to your photography that you'll just end up going digital rather than migrating to another film stock?

Ko.Fe. · Sep 24, 2015

I'm not that picky.
Here is no Kodak Gold in regular stores anymore, so I switched to old Kodak 50D (expired in nineties or so) from ebay.

And. Would you switch back to handwriting if your Macbook is dead and new ones aren't so pretty?

juan · Sep 24, 2015

I'm still using TMX that expired in 1996. It's been frozen since new. I'm using Efke PL100 that is several years past date. I do it because 8x10 film is just too expensive to throw out. The Kodak has no problems. The Efke seems to need a little more exposure. I also have some frozen Forte film that is fine.
That said, I don't think I would search out any discontinued film. I don't see any advantage.

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 24, 2015

I'm still shooting some Ilford FP4+ that expired in the previous decade (I want to say 2008 or 2009) and was stored in my basement, kept cool but never refrigerated or frozen, and it's still fine. But I would not recommend the hoarding old film thing as a general rule because if you're buying expired discontinued film, unless you personally know the seller and witnessed them put the film in the freezer and take it out again, you have no way of knowing how it was actually stored. You're at best buying yourself inconsistencies between batches, and at worst throwing good money down the drain.

MattKing · Sep 24, 2015

It only makes sense if:

1) it is incredibly cheap, and you can afford it if it turns out to be useless;
2) you are trying to match something in an existing project, and only the older materials will work; or
3) if you enjoy trying to solve what may turn out to be insoluble problems.

You have posted this in the colour film, paper and chemistry thread, so I am guessing that you are referring to colour materials. If you are trying to achieve realistic colour representation, the problems that one encounters with old colour materials are much more difficult to solve than the problems one encounters with old black and white materials, when the goal is only to achieve pleasing tonal representation.

I wouldn't hoard old colour materials, but I might enjoy playing with them.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 24, 2015

Instant film is not worth hording in large quantities. I have some FP3000B and 100C on hand, but not more than I can use in the next year or two.

Slow and medium speed films that you've tested and used extensively and have committed to may be worth hording in larger quantities, if you like how they look.

Faster films will show age fog sooner, so there's less motivation to horde them in large quantities but maybe in 5-year quantities. I'm still working through a stash of TXP-220, which I bought from the last batch a couple of years ago, for instance, but I think I'm down to 25 rolls or so.

Color films tend to go magenta with age, and not always evenly, so I wouldn't horde color so much.

Scott Gibson · Sep 24, 2015

I hoarded dozens of rolls of Efke IR820 and Kodak EIR when they were discontinued. Of course, these were/are specialty emulsions that no other film on the market can replace. Nor can digital come close replicating the same look (at least not in the case of EIR).

Sirius Glass · Sep 24, 2015

I have stored several types of discontinued film Kodak Ultra Color 400 in 35mm and 120, Kodak Vivid Color 160 in many boxes of 4"x5" sheets, Kodak Vivid Color 160 & 400 in 35mm and 120, Kodak Plus X in 120, Kodak Tri-X 320 in 120. Plus a reasonable supply of contemporary film. I use the discontinued films for specific purposes. Am I glad I did that? Of course.

skorpiius · Sep 24, 2015

Scott Gibson said:
I hoarded dozens of rolls of Efke IR820 and Kodak EIR when they were discontinued. Of course, these were/are specialty emulsions that no other film on the market can replace. Nor can digital come close replicating the same look (at least not in the case of EIR).

That's the situation where I think it makes sense. I feel like it's reasonable for me to hoard a bit of expired in 2015 FP3000b since it's the last b&w for hundreds of thousands of cameras, and more importantly one I just bought! . As well it's discontinued recently enough that it's still available in stores. I'd probably feel the same way if the colour version is discontinued, as well as the last E-6 transparency, last colour print, last b&w print, etc. I think infrared is definitely in that category. Might even consider it if very different print films are lost, like Extar, or all of the Portras.

Of course with something like the last E-6, the odds of labs still being around to process might restrict the amount reasonable to hoard.

I'm very analytically minded and I find I can suffer from paralysis by analysis so this thread has really helped with the perspective.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 24, 2015

skorpiius said:
That's the situation where I think it makes sense. I feel like it's reasonable for me to hoard a bit of expired in 2015 FP3000b since it's the last b&w for hundreds of thousands of cameras, and more importantly one I just bought! .

Thing is, you can't freeze it, though you can refrigerate it, and the pods can start to dry out after a couple of years, so the processing chemicals won't cover the whole sheet eventually.

skorpiius · Sep 24, 2015

David A. Goldfarb said:
Thing is, you can't freeze it, though you can refrigerate it, and the pods can start to dry out after a couple of years, so the processing chemicals won't cover the whole sheet eventually.

Very true, the amount that is reasonable to hoard for instant film is far less than 'normal' film. From my experience with 600 sized polaroid 7 year unrefrigerated film was mostly garbage, so I'm thinking 5 years refrigerated is probably the max.

NedL · Sep 24, 2015

I read somewhere about successful freezing of FP-100C. Can't remember where. If that film were discontinued I'd probably buy 50 or 100 boxes and hope for the best. ( Probably I'd try my own experiments with freezing/thawing first though ) As it is I just store it at room temperature and it definitely starts to lose something after the expiration date...

I got interested in using instant film too late and never got to try the 100B. I'm sure I would have liked it a lot.

RattyMouse · Sep 25, 2015

juan said:
That said, I don't think I would search out any discontinued film. I don't see any advantage.

I find this statement odd. What if you like the looks of long gone films? There's nothing that has the same look as Fuji's Rela or Astia 100F or even long gone Fortia films. The colors and contrast from these films is simply unavailable today.

Jim Noel · Sep 25, 2015

I treasure the Super XX I have kept for decades. There are certain scenes which no newer film can photographic adequately. It's straight line curve has never been matched.

removed account4 · Sep 25, 2015

sure, buy what you want and use it when you want.
but as others have suggested instant film can't be
saved the same way regular films can.

if it was plus x or pan x or old tmy you were buying
i'd say go ahead you'll be fine, but instant film is a different story.

good luck !
john

blockend · Sep 25, 2015

It depends on your reasons for wanting to hoard it. If it's to make a favourite product last the remainder of your photographic life, probably not. Anything that inhibits creative shooting has to be a bad thing, and eating away at your precious stock is not conducive to creativity.

Some films don't store well for long periods, slide films and instants among them. On the other hand if I'd had the presence of mind to purchase all the Agfapan 25 I could get my hands on, I'd have no qualms about storing it for ten years. The best way of maintaining a supply of film long term is to use lots of it.

blockend · Sep 25, 2015

skorpiius said:
I'm recently back in to film photography after about 10-12 years, and of course got caught up on all of the film products which have been discontinued.

It's a weird one. I was away from film for a shorter period, roughly 2003 to 2009, and in that time it was as though the world had turned upside down. Some things were ridiculously cheap, others madly expensive or completely unattainable. Products we'd assumed would be around forever, disappeared never to return.

As people return to film, and the cover of Amateur Photographer being dedicated to it, the experience will be an increasingly common one.

Sirius Glass · Sep 25, 2015

jnanian said:
sure, buy what you want and use it when you want.
but as others have suggested instant film can't be
saved the same way regular films can.

if it was plus x or pan x or old tmy you were buying
i'd say go ahead you'll be fine, but instant film is a different story.

good luck !
john

Yes

BradS · Sep 25, 2015

It really just depends. I have never felt the need to load up on a film that the manufacturer has discontinued. I have no regrets for not hoarding long gone film stocks. There's always been another film that was just as good or better. When Kodak finally discontinued Verichrome Pan for example, we still had Plus-x.

That said, I did buy a bunch of Arista Premium when Freestyle announced its end of life - not because there there's anything remarkable about the film. There isn't. It behaves just like Kodak Tri-X for me...I stocked up only because it was ridiculously inexpensive at the end.

removed account4 · Sep 25, 2015

i'd say go ahead you'll be fine, but instant film is a different story.

just to add to this, if it is like type 55 polaroid instant film,
and you dont' have designs on using it as polaroid instant film ..
hoard it and buy cases of it if you can ... the difference between #55 film
and other instant films is that there is actually a FILM NEGATIVE inside the sleeve ..
the film can be exposed and processed in a regular darkroom with regular chemistry .
some say it is like panatomic x ( but it isn't the exact same thing ), so you will have to play around a little to
figure out what chemistry and time works best.
i have a few boxes of this just waiting for right time to either use or sell .. haven't decided which.

skorpiius · Sep 25, 2015

jnanian said:
just to add to this, if it is like type 55 polaroid instant film,
and you dont' have designs on using it as polaroid instant film ..
hoard it and buy cases of it if you can ... the difference between #55 film
and other instant films is that there is actually a FILM NEGATIVE inside the sleeve ..
the film can be exposed and processed in a regular darkroom with regular chemistry .
some say it is like panatomic x ( but it isn't the exact same thing ), so you will have to play around a little to
figure out what chemistry and time works best.
i have a few boxes of this just waiting for right time to either use or sell .. haven't decided which.

Interesting info about type 55. I hadn't actually heard of type 55 before (or is that the official format name for FP100C/FP3000b?)

Anyway, even more interesting, on wikipedia there's talk of a successful kickstarter trying to make type 55 film.
This interests me since the Impossible Project confirmed the factory they acquired did not have peel apart film equipment.

ic-racer · Sep 25, 2015

I'm not going to start a project on something that has been discontinued. I'd move on to some emulsion that is available fresh. Not worth my time to mess with expired film when it cost as much as fresh film. I used to shoot expired film about 10 years ago because you could get it for free or perhaps a dollar a sheet for 8x10. Those days are gone.

Sirius Glass · Sep 26, 2015

ic-racer said:
I'm not going to start a project on something that has been discontinued. I'd move on to some emulsion that is available fresh. Not worth my time to mess with expired film when it cost as much as fresh film. I used to shoot expired film about 10 years ago because you could get it for free or perhaps a dollar a sheet for 8x10. Those days are gone.

However if you have had great success photographing red rock in the US Southwest using Kodak Ultra Color and liked the Ultra Color results better than Kodak Portra, and if you had been wise enough to stockpile Kodak Ultra Color and Kodak Vivid Color before they were discontinued, then you could start and complete the project with those films.

It would be really hard to start a project today using HIE, so I would not base a project using HIE. I only had one roll of HIE and I used it years ago. That was a lesson that I learned the hard way.

If there is an emulsion that you like and you hear that it will be discontinued, then I would recommend that you stockpile that emulsion before the hoarders do.

blockend · Sep 26, 2015

Dye transfer materials may have been worth hoarding. I read recently that William Egglestone's DT prints cost him $500 each to make, even back then.

removed account4 · Sep 26, 2015

probbly with the change in the laws soon ( from what i heard alluded to )
it would be worth hoarding sodium thiosulfate .. seeing it may be hard to come by
making developer is ez enough from the kitchen cupboard ... and then there is silver nitrate ..

Discontinued film worth hording?

skorpiius

Ko.Fe.

juan

TheFlyingCamera

Membership Council

MattKing

Moderator

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Scott Gibson

Sirius Glass

skorpiius

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

skorpiius

NedL

RattyMouse

Jim Noel

removed account4

blockend

blockend

Sirius Glass

BradS

removed account4

skorpiius

ic-racer

Sirius Glass

blockend

removed account4

Discontinued film worth hording?

Membership Council

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency