jaydebruyne
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I think you'll learn more about how to expose and develop film correctly if you're physically using the negatives to create prints. You'll be more motivated to nail the exposure and not blow out the highlights in development if you can't just mask mistakes in PS.
Also, I like the original neg scan below better than the altered one. It's a little flat but could be easily corrected on the enlarger. Maybe a #4 filter for one stop? Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Phil
Hey Phil,
I have no knowledge regarding printing, so I am assuming the #4 filter goes on to the enlarger to lessen the light? Like an ND filter?
Cheers
Jay
It's reasonably common for scanned film to look a bit flat and need PS adjustment. It can be complicated depending if you are doing the scanning or some facility is doing it for you. If you do it yourself you can usually change some settings to get a pretty good result right out of the scanner. For the flat contrast I generally just add a bit of levels adjustment in PS, neutralise the B&W (having scanned in colour) and that's about it. I do think your after scan looks a bit overdone, too high in contrast, and perhaps you've given yourself too much work to get there. Perhaps try a simple levels or curves adjustment instead.The scans from my first roll of film lacked so much contrast and generally looked awful, even though the negatives actually look quite well exposed/developed.
Second image is way too contrasty with loss of details...
Actually, there are NO ethics involved on this one. Just edit it until you get the image where you want it, just like you would in a darkroom. The neg is simply your starting point. If you have the image where you like it, you're done, no matter how you did it. No one has to like it but you, or agree w/ how you've made it that way. The only "rules" are, if you exhibit a print in a gallery (vs posting an online image), it should be a "photograph". Meaning, if you've done anything non photographic to it, such as painting or marking an area w/ a brush or ink, or gluing something to the surface, then it's a mixed media piece, not a photograph, and should be clearly described as such.
It's like that w/ all art, and photography is an art form. The minute you lay a brush to an etching or lithograph, or use any sort of alternative media with, or to, a painting, it's a mixed media piece, no matter what it "looks" like. It's more about proper categories than rules. You have more latitude w/ a negative vs a finished print, as the neg is just an intermediate step in the process. I would imagine that if you marked up, or otherwise altered a negative, and then printed it conventionally, you would still have a photograph. These rules are necessary in order to prevent buyers from buying a pig in a poke. No one wants to purchase one thing, and then find out it's something altogether different once they get home. The art world is full of people trying to fudge the boundaries on all of this.
As others have said, the guidance is pretty simple. If it's possible to do it in the darkroom, you are allowed to simulate it digitally. The difficulty arises when one may not have worked enough in a darkroom to know what is realistically possible with a negative in the first place. It's so easy to just keep clicking until it looks good.
That's why many here are gently recommending giving traditional printing a try. It's good advice. But admittedly a bit daunting at the beginning. The payback, of course, is to bring one much closer to the real (not simulated) hands-on photographic process.
My own approach is even a little more restrictive. For myself I interpret the rule to be, only if it's something that I myself can do in my darkroom will I simulate it digitally for display here.
In other words, just because it's possible to do, say, traditional contrast masking in a darkroom, I haven't done that in my darkroom. So until I have mastered that technique using traditional photographic processes, I won't allow myself to simulate it digitally.
This isn't strictly required, of course. It's just my own ethical interpretation of the guidelines.
Ken
It's reasonably common for scanned film to look a bit flat and need PS adjustment. It can be complicated depending if you are doing the scanning or some facility is doing it for you. If you do it yourself you can usually change some settings to get a pretty good result right out of the scanner. For the flat contrast I generally just add a bit of levels adjustment in PS, neutralise the B&W (having scanned in colour) and that's about it. I do think your after scan looks a bit overdone, too high in contrast, and perhaps you've given yourself too much work to get there. Perhaps try a simple levels or curves adjustment instead.
Generally, we've operated on the honor system, and said, whatever you can do with the equipment and skills you have to represent your actual analogue print accurately is OK. Some people can get something that looks more like the print on screen by scanning the neg and adjusting with an analogue print in hand, at least for relatively "straight" prints. For alt-process prints, toned prints, lith prints, and such, the best option is usually to scan or make a digital photograph of the print for the sake of posting it on APUG, since it's mainly about the print effects.
As far as unethical and manipulative post production, if you've got those analogue skills like airbrushing, hand retouching, stripping, and masking, bring it on! APUG exists to preserve the techniques of analogue photography, and if you know how to make Trotsky disappear without using a computer, we want that information on APUG!
For what it is worth I think you have a negative that is properly exposed but is naturally of low contrast when you examine the light and the colours. When I click on the thumbnails and get the full size picture then the first looks even more natural. The second is too contrasty but that's only my opinion.
However if you, as opposed to me, were to print this negative you would presumably increase the contrast in the darkroom via filters as you have done in PS so we are seeing what you'd want to present to us as the finished article if it were a darkroom print and that's seems perfectly acceptable to me.
More importantly it is acceptable under APUG rules. However if you can possibly manage to, then do give darkroom printing a go. It opens up another creative world.
pentaxuser
Variable contrast papers allow you to split filter to lay down midtones and then add contrast. Filters go from 0 to 52 being normal and 5 being the highest contrast.
One of the books listed below would probably be a worthwhile investment for you if you start printing. Larry Bartlett's book (not sure if it's listed below) is about the best I've read on printing, and can be had pretty cheap.
I just bought Lary Bartlett's book on Amazon for £4.80 (including delivery) - bargain! Thanks Pstake.
The only "rules" are, if you exhibit a print in a gallery (vs posting an online image), it should be a "photograph". Meaning, if you've done anything non photographic to it, such as painting or marking an area w/ a brush or ink, or gluing something to the surface, then it's a mixed media piece, not a photograph, and should be clearly described as such.
I like very contrasty images, so I intended it to be like that
I completely disagree with this (and it would mean 90% of my Gallery posts don't belong). I do a lot of hand-painted photographs. They are photographs. Your definition would also disqualify bromoils and gum prints.
Huh? My stuff is untouched by any digital methods. It all starts with film, and is printed in the darkroom, on silver gelatin paper.Actually I agree with him, many of your images aren't allowed here and should be on DPUGsince alternative processes are against the rules here from what I've been told.
What is the worst that can happen if you scan before you print? You might put the cart before the horse and setup an expectation of what you would like the print to look like - an expectation that you can't achieve in the darkroom.
[Emphasis is mine. —Ken]
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