Directors viewfinder - good idea?

[Jerevan]

Well, I am thinking of getting some sort of tool to help me find the right spot to stand on before I haul out the camera and put it on the tripod. I am thinking of the 5x7 format, normal (180 mm) focal length.

I know about the DIY cardboard frame thing with a string, but I've never really warmed up to it in real life.

Then it crossed my mind ... those director viewfinders that they used back in the days (and maybe still do) when doing movies. Would such a thing set to 35 mm film and normal focal length be a good approximation?

Yes, I know ... I should grow up, be Ansel Adams and just previsualize things.

 

[gone]

I found this. Hope it helps. Apparently the finders can be set to different aspect ratios besides 35mm film. I would guess they're a requirement on a shooting set because they could save lots of time. They make aps for phones too, but I have no phone so can't say how those work.

This was a small issue when I shot LF (the larger issues were weight and the glacier like pace of shooting) , and I finally bought a reflex viewer for my 4x5. You still had to set things up on a tripod and all, but seeing the scene correctly orientated made a huge difference. You could use the camera hand held to ck shots beforehand I suppose w/ a reflex viewer.

https://cjpowersonline.com/2013/01/16/5-reasons-for-using-a-director-viewfinder/

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Many of us use viewing filters or frames of one kind or another. A viewing frame does not have to be the film size. I often use a black 3x5" card with the appropriate-aspect-ratio hole cut in the middle. I can even fold it in half for storage and unfold it for use. You don't need a string either; how many fingers between eye and opening will tell you which lens you need with a bit of experience.

Mostly, however, I use a Zone VI viewing filter. I bought mine when they were $17... now they're a bit more on the used market. They incorporate a Wratten #90 black-and-white viewing filter and help to check for tone mergers if you know how to use them. Check out this thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

A director's viewfinder should work well too, but unless you're shooting that aspect ratio, you'll have to compensate a bit mentally. I use my fingers to frame a lot too. With the viewing frame I find that I can compose (or reject) a shot and choose camera position and lens before I start to unpack (or not, saving me time!).

Best,

Doremus

 

[Diapositivo]

A director's viewfinder is nice but expensive.

There are smartphone applications as well which more or less should do the job. I hate smartphones in the sun as it's a pain to look at the screen but apparently some people are able to use them. Director's viewfinder in smartphones allow for frames of several focal lenght, aspect ratio etc. and if you did not know their existence I suggest you have a look at some of them.

Or maybe you could try with an older method

http://previews.123rf.com/images/kh...ato-su-sfondo-bianco-Archivio-Fotografico.jpg

 

[bdial]

It's something I've considered from time to time, but have never gone so far as buying one. However, I do often have some sort of hand-carry camera along with the LF, and I'll sometimes explore the area with it, usually without exposing any film, to find places set up the big camera.

When exploring using the small camera, I don't try to do any sort of precise framing, and I compensate for view differences in my head.
Certainly a director's finder or one repurposed from a rangefinder kit would be more compact and lighter.

 

[guangong]

The reason for being of the directors viewfinder is simply because union rules prohibited the director or director of photography from looking through the cameramans viewfinder. These are no longer needed because modern cinema cameras use an electronic viewing system that feeds to a laptop that is available to the director. So there should be many directors viewfinders available on the used market.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have thought about using a director's viewfinder, however instead I use the 28mm to 300mm zoom lens on my 35mm Nikon and translate the focal length to the Hasselblad or 4"x5".

Zoom focal length = Hasselblad focal length
50mm 80mm

Hasselblad focal length = Zoom focal length * 50mm
80mm

Zoom focal length = 4"x5" focal length
50mm 135mm [could use 150mm]

4"x5" focal length = Zoom focal length * 50mm
135mm [could use 150mm]


However normally I just gauge by eye and I am right most of the time for the Hasselblad, not so much for the 4"x5".

 

[John Koehrer]

FWIW, Adams never used the term "PREvisualize" always "visualize" That was was one of his assistants. I believe Zakia.

 

[Gadfly_71]

The reason for being of the directors viewfinder is simply because union rules prohibited the director or director of photography from looking through the cameramans viewfinder. These are no longer needed because modern cinema cameras use an electronic viewing system that feeds to a laptop that is available to the director. So there should be many directors viewfinders available on the used market.

Director's viewfinders are still made and still pricey(ish). They were and are still used to "pre"-visualize a scene to aid in set-up in much the same way we'd use a viewing card. Even on the used market a good viewfinder is not cheap.

 

[johnielvis]

I got a cheap walz 35mm "HOT SHOE" viewfinder to do this. it is made for variable focal lengths from 28mm to 135mm. So it goes from very wide to very long. You can mask off the sides to the proper aspect ration and just use the "equivalent focal length" to dial in the proper 35mm equivalent.

 

[Jerevan]

FWIW, Adams never used the term "PREvisualize" always "visualize" That was was one of his assistants. I believe Zakia.

I better read the holy zone trinity books again, I see ... (joking aside, thanks for the correction!)

 

[MattKing]

It might have been Minor White who added the "Pre"

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I'm gonna try to revive this thread, as things have changed in director's finder offerings, some quite cheap, others reasonable and seemingly useful for LF work.

All the well known time tested standbys from Horseman, Linhof and more, has anybody tried / uses current offerings from say OPTEKA ? Does not really have LF aspect ratios built in, no surprise there, but with some mindful adjustment might be worth it.

Are there any director's finders more suited to LF photography? I am not asking about field camera supplied finders. Director's finder is to me built to hang off ones neck, might even say looks cool, are surely some will claim it improves their photography.

I seem to be warming up to the idea of carrying one in a car all the time, and walk around with it in right places, even at times when no camera is at hand to record anything.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you have an iPhone, look for an app called Viewfinder Mark II, and you can set it up for any format, any focal length, as wide as your phone lens goes, and if you use auxiliary lenses on your phone, you can set it to account for those as well.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

@David A. Goldfarb I guess I will have to take the plunge, at last, and get the iPhone then. Luckily my daughter uses one so it'll be easy to check it out before a grand goes towards the supporting hardware.

 

[awty]

They have directors view apps for Android as well.
I use one regularly, saves a lot of time and effort.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

OK guys, app sounds promising in all honesty. While I like the idea of having a finder over my neck, getting a quality one is like buying a pretty LF lens, even these days.

While shooting film with help of a phone is as "cool", my question is; do these apps darken the out of view area, or just show a frame for different aspect ratios? So is it like having an opening in a cardboard?

@awty Which app are you using?

 

[Deleted member 88956]

So I looked up the Mark II Artist's Viewfinder, got the 80 page book on it and answered my question for this one: it DOES darken the outside, so one can focus on view within set aspect ration. great.

Once I know which Android is favored I'll find out how that works, but I'm tired of being last man standing in my house, so iPhone will probably get the a nod next year.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

If you have an iPhone, look for an app called Viewfinder Mark II, and you can set it up for any format, any focal length, as wide as your phone lens goes, and if you use auxiliary lenses on your phone, you can set it to account for those as well.

Looking through this app's book, it has B&W mode. I assume you use this mode as well. Is it all that useful, filters can be set etc?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I'm using my Olympus E-PL1 micro 4/3 digital camera as a director's viewfinder. I set it on 4:3 which is very close to 5:4 LF. (ie. 20"x15" vs 20"x16"). I switch the LED view to BW if shooting BW film. Some cameras have filter settings. So you can look at the scene with a yellow or red for example to get an idea of how it would look with a real BW contrast filter. Then I use the zoom to find the framing I want. The zoom tells me what LF lens I should use. I initially compared the LF lenses against the zoom range on the horizontal of the digital camera. I ignore the vertical figuring width is more important usually. I then "mark" the zoom on the digital to the equivalent width angle of each of my LF lenses. The digital camera's zoom covers me for my 300mm 150mm and 90mm. It doesn't go as wide as my 75mm. But I can tell at 90mm equivalent if I need something wider and I'll use the 75mm. So if you would do this for 5x7, check the width against the digital, unless you're shooting portraits. I also snap a picture for reference.

I might take a quick video clip and might dictate the settings, movements, and any other comments rather than write them down in a logbook, especially when I'm rushed due to changing light. I transcribe the info afterward.

Although a somewhat separate issue, I started using the digital camera as a meter using its spot, center, histogram, and the LED display to find the exposure settings which I then transfer to the 4x5. Taking a picture records these settings on the digital photo for reference later.

A couple of things to keep in mind. Micro 4/3 aperture on my camera only goes down to f/22. Most smaller P&S only go to about f/8. So using a small P&S becomes more calculating. Also, the ISO of the digital camera only goes to 100 and I sometimes shoot Velvia 50. So you have to play with the exposure in your mind when transferring settings to the LF camera. Of course, if you don't intend to use the P&S as a meter, all the other functions as a viewfinder are still available. A small cheap P&S also fits in your breast pocket or from a neck lanyard.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

App that David suggested looks very good, while needing a few add-ons for LF film shooting to make it even more useful. But the way it frames, give ability to snap the scene, it does look good.

For metering I've no plans to walk away from hand held meter, spot or otherwise. I am not sure what would have to happen to phone apps to make me rely on them. They may be accurate, but every time I try any, all I can think of is the phone in my hand.

 

[basicn]

If you have an iPhone, look for an app called Viewfinder Mark II, and you can set it up for any format, any focal length, as wide as your phone lens goes, and if you use auxiliary lenses on your phone, you can set it to account for those as well.

+1
It is a very good, very usable app

 

[cliveh]

I would suggest a Vidom finder would be far more useful.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I have the Artist's Veiwfinder as well. You can adapt it with wide angle lenses too which is nice and the app will accommodate the change of view. It is nice having it in my pocket instead of having to carry something else. I use it with medium format and 4x5.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Since my dedicated thread to Artist's app is waiting on the runway for take off, in B&W view, can you play with colored filters, or this is just plain B&W conversion with no options?

Also, it is possible to take a snap of the view, is this a whole screen with frame lines, or only masked area?