Direct sepia toner, alternatives nowadays?

[Oscar Carlsson]

Hi,

My indirect sepia toner kit has run out and I'm looking for a new kit. After reading a lot in Way Beyond Monochrome (which is an awesome book) I'm curious about direct sepia toners, like Agfa Viradon and Kodak Brown Toner.

As far as I've understood from googling,

• Viradon New and Viradon are not the same, as the older version contained selenium as well
• KBT and AV are both polysulfide toners

But what are the alternatives nowadays? I think I'd like something very similar to Viradon, but the ultimate goal is archival stability and a brown tone in the image.

I've tried to read up on Moersch toners but I don't fully grasp which one is which and the differences between them.

 

[Ian Grant]

I've used Ilford IT-3 Selenium Sulphide toner, still have it on the shelf but because I use warm-tone papers developed for maximum warmth its a not really what I want in terms of colour/tone. It would be better with Bromide papers.

Ian

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Since you have worked with kits I would suggest either Kodak Polysulfide Toner T-8 which is a direct toner or Kodak Sepia Toner T-19 an indirect toner. Both are simple formulas easy to mix. There is also the classic hypo-alum toner which is slow working and therefore easy to control. It lasts forever and even gets better with age. Once again easy to mix.

 

[brian steinberger]

Oscar, what paper are you using? I ask this because direct toning with sulfide toners like viradon and KBT will have different effects depending on if it's a warmtone or neutral emulsion paper. I use viradon on MGWT and the results are great. A warm reddish brown tone. Used on a neutral paper like MGIV or Oriental VC there result is very subtle, very hard to distinguish. If you're looking for a nice brown tone I'd recommend using a sulfide toner directly on a warmtone paper, or indirectly on a neutral paper (bleaching the image away first and toning back in sulfide toner), or sticking with sepia.

 

[Roger Cole]

Freestyle Legacy Pro Brown toner is the same as old Kodak Brown Toner. I like it quite a lot on MGWT.

 

[thefizz]

Moersch MT5 is the one you need.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Since you have worked with kits I would suggest either Kodak Polysulfide Toner T-8 which is a direct toner or Kodak Sepia Toner T-19 an indirect toner. Both are simple formulas easy to mix. There is also the classic hypo-alum toner which is slow working and therefore easy to control. It lasts forever and even gets better with age. Once again easy to mix.

+1 on T8

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Oscar, what paper are you using? I ask this because direct toning with sulfide toners like viradon and KBT will have different effects depending on if it's a warmtone or neutral emulsion paper. I use viradon on MGWT and the results are great. A warm reddish brown tone. Used on a neutral paper like MGIV or Oriental VC there result is very subtle, very hard to distinguish. If you're looking for a nice brown tone I'd recommend using a sulfide toner directly on a warmtone paper, or indirectly on a neutral paper (bleaching the image away first and toning back in sulfide toner), or sticking with sepia.

I love the light warming of the highlight with Viradon or T8 on Ilford MGIVFB

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Moersch MT5 is the one you need.

You can always give Moersch a call;He loves to chat about his products and is a very experienced darkroom worker himself

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I prefer thiorea brown toner

It doesn't stink like the sulfide toners. I mix my own which makes it pretty economical.



http://stores.photoformulary.com/thiourea-toner/

 

[Oscar Carlsson]

How bad is the smell of T8/similar? I've previously worked with odourless toners so I'm not familiar with how bad they are, and peoples descriptions of the odour vary a lot.

I'm based in northern Europe, so ordering from Freestyle might be a bit excessive, so I'm curious on trying to mix T8 myself, given that I can source the supplies needed. Or maybe just buy MT5, but then I have to locate some sodium sulfide anyways so why not do it myself?

Thanks for your replies!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Exactly.My chemical supplier was in Hamburg/Germany(Suvatlar)He has anything and is reasonable and reliable

 

[Gerald C Koch]

All sulfide toners emit hydrogen sulfide gas to a greater or lesser degree even thiourea/thiocarbamide ones. The gas smells like rotten eggs. However all toning should be done in a well ventilated area whether a sulfide or selenium toner is used. So smell is really not a problem.

 

[Oscar Carlsson]

Exactly.My chemical supplier was in Hamburg/Germany(Suvatlar)He has anything and is reasonable and reliable

I think I've had a look at his supplies, found it through Moersch's site. I didn't see any polysulfide on that list, but sodium sulfide. I guess I'll have to take a look again.

All sulfide toners emit hydrogen sulfide gas to a greater or lesser degree even thiourea/thiocarbamide ones. The gas smells like rotten eggs. However all toning should be done in a well ventilated area whether a sulfide or selenium toner is used. So smell is really not a problem.

I'm very careful when toning in selenium, and I think my darkroom is ventilated enough since I've had no issues with selenium. I guess I should be careful with having papers in the same room when sulfide toning, as I've understood that it is a powerful fogging agent for papers.

 

[Roger Cole]

I have fogged paper that way. My space is now better ventilated and I have no problems but the possibility of fogging is quite real. (Having my paper safe a couple of feet from the toner tray was not, in retrospect, smart. Fortunately there were just a few sheets in there. The rest was farther away and in the vapor bags inside the boxes and showed no problems.)


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