Direct sepia toner, alternatives nowadays?

Oscar Carlsson · Jul 28, 2015

Hi,

My indirect sepia toner kit has run out and I'm looking for a new kit. After reading a lot in Way Beyond Monochrome (which is an awesome book) I'm curious about direct sepia toners, like Agfa Viradon and Kodak Brown Toner.

As far as I've understood from googling,

Viradon New and Viradon are not the same, as the older version contained selenium as well
KBT and AV are both polysulfide toners

But what are the alternatives nowadays? I think I'd like something very similar to Viradon, but the ultimate goal is archival stability and a brown tone in the image.

I've tried to read up on Moersch toners but I don't fully grasp which one is which and the differences between them.

Ian Grant · Jul 28, 2015

I've used Ilford IT-3 Selenium Sulphide toner, still have it on the shelf but because I use warm-tone papers developed for maximum warmth its a not really what I want in terms of colour/tone. It would be better with Bromide papers.

Ian

Gerald C Koch · Jul 28, 2015

Since you have worked with kits I would suggest either Kodak Polysulfide Toner T-8 which is a direct toner or Kodak Sepia Toner T-19 an indirect toner. Both are simple formulas easy to mix. There is also the classic hypo-alum toner which is slow working and therefore easy to control. It lasts forever and even gets better with age. Once again easy to mix.

brian steinberger · Jul 29, 2015

Oscar, what paper are you using? I ask this because direct toning with sulfide toners like viradon and KBT will have different effects depending on if it's a warmtone or neutral emulsion paper. I use viradon on MGWT and the results are great. A warm reddish brown tone. Used on a neutral paper like MGIV or Oriental VC there result is very subtle, very hard to distinguish. If you're looking for a nice brown tone I'd recommend using a sulfide toner directly on a warmtone paper, or indirectly on a neutral paper (bleaching the image away first and toning back in sulfide toner), or sticking with sepia.

Roger Cole · Jul 29, 2015

Freestyle Legacy Pro Brown toner is the same as old Kodak Brown Toner. I like it quite a lot on MGWT.

thefizz · Jul 30, 2015

Moersch MT5 is the one you need.

RalphLambrecht · Jul 31, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
Since you have worked with kits I would suggest either Kodak Polysulfide Toner T-8 which is a direct toner or Kodak Sepia Toner T-19 an indirect toner. Both are simple formulas easy to mix. There is also the classic hypo-alum toner which is slow working and therefore easy to control. It lasts forever and even gets better with age. Once again easy to mix.

+1 on T8

RalphLambrecht · Jul 31, 2015

brian steinberger said:
Oscar, what paper are you using? I ask this because direct toning with sulfide toners like viradon and KBT will have different effects depending on if it's a warmtone or neutral emulsion paper. I use viradon on MGWT and the results are great. A warm reddish brown tone. Used on a neutral paper like MGIV or Oriental VC there result is very subtle, very hard to distinguish. If you're looking for a nice brown tone I'd recommend using a sulfide toner directly on a warmtone paper, or indirectly on a neutral paper (bleaching the image away first and toning back in sulfide toner), or sticking with sepia.

I love the light warming of the highlight with Viradon or T8 on Ilford MGIVFB

RalphLambrecht · Jul 31, 2015

thefizz said:
Moersch MT5 is the one you need.

You can always give Moersch a call;He loves to chat about his products and is a very experienced darkroom worker himself

Mainecoonmaniac · Jul 31, 2015

I prefer thiorea brown toner

It doesn't stink like the sulfide toners. I mix my own which makes it pretty economical.

http://stores.photoformulary.com/thiourea-toner/

Oscar Carlsson · Aug 1, 2015

How bad is the smell of T8/similar? I've previously worked with odourless toners so I'm not familiar with how bad they are, and peoples descriptions of the odour vary a lot.

I'm based in northern Europe, so ordering from Freestyle might be a bit excessive, so I'm curious on trying to mix T8 myself, given that I can source the supplies needed. Or maybe just buy MT5, but then I have to locate some sodium sulfide anyways so why not do it myself?

Thanks for your replies!

RalphLambrecht · Aug 1, 2015

Exactly.My chemical supplier was in Hamburg/Germany(Suvatlar)He has anything and is reasonable and reliable

Gerald C Koch · Aug 1, 2015

All sulfide toners emit hydrogen sulfide gas to a greater or lesser degree even thiourea/thiocarbamide ones. The gas smells like rotten eggs. However all toning should be done in a well ventilated area whether a sulfide or selenium toner is used. So smell is really not a problem.

Oscar Carlsson · Aug 1, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
Exactly.My chemical supplier was in Hamburg/Germany(Suvatlar)He has anything and is reasonable and reliable

I think I've had a look at his supplies, found it through Moersch's site. I didn't see any polysulfide on that list, but sodium sulfide. I guess I'll have to take a look again.

Gerald C Koch said:
All sulfide toners emit hydrogen sulfide gas to a greater or lesser degree even thiourea/thiocarbamide ones. The gas smells like rotten eggs. However all toning should be done in a well ventilated area whether a sulfide or selenium toner is used. So smell is really not a problem.

I'm very careful when toning in selenium, and I think my darkroom is ventilated enough since I've had no issues with selenium. I guess I should be careful with having papers in the same room when sulfide toning, as I've understood that it is a powerful fogging agent for papers.

Roger Cole · Aug 1, 2015

I have fogged paper that way. My space is now better ventilated and I have no problems but the possibility of fogging is quite real. (Having my paper safe a couple of feet from the toner tray was not, in retrospect, smart. Fortunately there were just a few sheets in there. The rest was farther away and in the vapor bags inside the boxes and showed no problems.)

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Direct sepia toner, alternatives nowadays?

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