Digital vs Analogue Timers

jaydebruyne said:

Ahhhhh *penny drops* .

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Methinks you would benefit from spending a day or two with an experienced darkroom user.

jaydebruyne said:

So,

Obviously there will be greater precision with digital timers, but for a brand new starter like me, do I need such precision like 1/10 of a second at this stage?

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I'm a big fan of f/stop timingand determine print exposure bu highlight densitywith an accuracy of 1/12 stop.finer increments are hard to see for me, but 1/6stop is too course for my tasteI usually dodge or burn in 1/3 or 1/6 stop increments. for my way of working1/10s is useful, but a dedicated f/stop timer is more practical than a linear timer in my opinion.

paul_c5x4 said:

Methinks you would benefit from spending a day or two with an experienced darkroom user.

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Unfortunately I don't have that luxury. Besides, it's a fun journey to research and put into practise what I learn, rather than being shown. I guess I like learning the hard way

MattKing said:

Nope.

Enlargers work backwards when compared with cameras (they are like projectors).

The shorter the lens, the higher the magnification.

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Gotchya! Thanks Matt.

fretlessdavis said:

However, I have been playing bass for over a decade (mostly jazz) and have been noted for having excellent time and groove. My girlfriend is a drummer, so she's definitely not a slouch with beat/groove either. YMMV depending on your musical skill, though.

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I was a rapper for 12 years with a live band, my timing is pretty good also played acoustic guitar for a few years. Nice to meet another muso

MattKing said:

Digital timers work well with f-stop printing - I recommend them.

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Agreed, I did not buy my two Stop Clock Pro's for the increments as much as I did the other features like F-stop printing, multi-channel, dry down compensation, etc.

RH Designs is now obnoxiously expensive but worth it from a feature rich and future-proofing standpoint.

I also think a Gralab 450 or Saunders ET-500 would be perfect to start with, make sure you get a footswitch, very handy for dodging and burning. I would sell one of my 450's or ET-500 if I were not saving equipment for workshops...

One thought though is the UK voltage and plug style, the RH Designs are UK out of the box.

jaydebruyne said:

Unfortunately I don't have that luxury. Besides, it's a fun journey to research and put into practise what I learn, rather than being shown. I guess I like learning the hard way

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www.localdarkroom.com/ should turn something up on your doorstep, failing that, make an appeal here - There are a few APUG members in London and I'm a couple of hours away..

Analog timers, like the classic Omega Solid State Precision Timer, are easier to repair. Less components, no integrated circuits, etc. This one uses discrete components consisting of resistors and capacitors and a single SCR.

Often my print times for smaller paper sizes are around fifteen seconds. I usually print in tenths of a stop, so repeatable timing in tenths of a second is useful. Clockwork-dial type timers don't give the repeatability (as I found with my first ever timer...) but my digitally-based timers have dials on the front giving tenths, singles and tens of seconds for easy and intuitive use - my personally recommended compromise

A note to jaydebruyne, in Brixton you have an extremely good public darkroom centre which is worth a visit, Photofusion. As well as simple hire, they do a six hour course (over a couple of days) for beginners which includes instructions and demonstrations, all materials and your 'own' enlarger etc. for about a hundred quid. It's well worth it for the saving in time and materials compared to working everything out from scratch.

jaydebruyne said:

I was a rapper for 12 years with a live band, my timing is pretty good also played acoustic guitar for a few years. Nice to meet another muso

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Definitely! For some reason, at least around here, there's very little crossover between musicians and photographers. Being a rapper and having good beat, I'm sure you could be quite accurate with just a calibrated drum beat or metronome.... probably more so than an analog dial timer. You really get into the groove, so to speak, or at least I do. Much more zen like and keeps me focused. I remembered the digital one I had used before and had really liked was a GraLab 555. If I were to do it again from the beginning, that's the one I'd snag.

I'd like to echo what someone else said, though, too-- Don't spend a ton. $$$ is better spent on more film and paper in the beginning. If you get to the point where you need high precision at 1/10 second intervals, you'll know it. Generally, with darkroom equipment prices being so low these days, a timer wouldn't depreciate much further (if at all) during the time you own it. With an 8x10 on either of my enlargers at their sweet spots, the fastest exposures I get are about 10-15 seconds with MGIV at 5.6 on my EL-Nikkor 50 with a multigrade filter. Usually I'm in the 20-25. At this point, .1 of a second would make no difference that anyone could see.

Don't spend a ton. There's a lot of used stuff out there, if it dies, replace it. A simple metronome will work, there's much to be said for keeping a simple approach.

I don't plan on spending more than 30 pounds on a timer.

Everything I've bought for my darkroom I've bought 2nd hand (even my camera) and have gotten really great deals, the best being my Kaiser VCP6001 enlarger with 2 Schneider Compnen-S lenses - 50mm 2.8 and 80mm 4.0 - all for 50 pounds including delivery! I got a kaiser 10x8 easel for 20 pounds and the rest are just little tidbits other than paper and chemicals which are obviously brand new, but still cheap enough.

The digital timer I've seen is on an auction site for 5 pounds at the moment so I'm hoping to snag that for less than 30 pounds! We'll see.. Bidding ends tomorrow night.

The exciting next stage for me is setting up my darkroom and then using it, sharing my work with you good folk and *hopefully* getting better at this photography thing

Thanks for the info and sorry for bombarding the forum with questions. I've just bought another book so I will try and keep my questions to a minimum from now on.

Jay

When I went timer-hunting I found that some of the solid-state timers (commonly with a pair of 0-9 rotary switches and a 1x/10x range switch, allowing 0.1-9.9 seconds in 0.1 second steps, and 10-99 seconds in 1 second steps) were no more expensive than the single rotary dial types and usually a good deal cheaper than the Gralab 300s were going for. I figured the short time increments could be useful for f-stop printing, pre-flashing and dry down compensation and that it would be better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. As it turns out, I don't often get into tenths of a second timing, but I'm playing around with pre-flashing and I can see needing those small increments for that.

Another one to encourage you to go digital, Either with the knobs or keypad. Personnaly I prefer the knob type. Set it and forget it.
I've got two M59's and they come nowhere near the same times, though set the same.

jaydebruyne said:

The digital timer I've seen is on an auction site for 5 pounds at the moment so I'm hoping to snag that for less than 30 pounds! We'll see.. Bidding ends tomorrow night.

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Cut your losses if it goes above £10 including shipping. There'll be others popping up before too long.

Also keep an eye out for the Jessops ET99D - They usually go for peanuts, but are more than adequate for many people.