Digibase C41 First time and film is dark

Abutate · Feb 16, 2016

Hi, I have just done first roll on c41 digibase, all did go well with temps and time, however at the end film is more of dark.

I had managed temps quite well with no issues what so ever and also timed it well.

at the end i can see negatives but they are not very vivid or not very easy to see though.

Roll i used was Poundland 200 agfa vista.

Thanks

Truzi · Feb 16, 2016

Of the cuff, I would suggest putting it in the bleach and fixer again (or blix, if you have that kit). I've read this can happen if you have retained silver. It could also be an exposure problem. By "at the end," do you mean one end of the roll, or the end of your processing of the film?

It would be helpful if you described your process, and pictures (not scans) of the actual negatives against a bright background (say, a blank web page on your monitor) could also help us diagnose. (Unfortunately, I don't think you can post images until you get a few more posts under your belt.)

Abutate · Feb 16, 2016

Truzi said:
Of the cuff, I would suggest putting it in the bleach and fixer again (or blix, if you have that kit). I've read this can happen if you have retained silver. It could also be an exposure problem. By "at the end," do you mean one end of the roll, or the end of your processing of the film?

It would be helpful if you described your process, and pictures (not scans) of the actual negatives against a bright background (say, a blank web page on your monitor) could also help us diagnose. (Unfortunately, I don't think you can post images until you get a few more posts under your belt.)

--

Many thanks your reply,
At the end i meant, End of process. No Exposure hasnt been a issue, All frames are exposed properly how ever entire film is dark in terms that its not easy to see through compare to how developed film should look like.
i am new here and trying to see if i can put pictures.

Photo Engineer · Feb 16, 2016

Do a re-bleach, wash, fix, wash and stabilizer or re-blix, wash and stabilzer.

If the fixer is cloudy or yellowish it is bad.

PE

Abutate · Feb 16, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Do a re-bleach, wash, fix, wash and stabilizer or re-blix, wash and stabilzer.

If the fixer is cloudy or yellowish it is bad.

PE

Thank you. good idea. let me try.

Kit is brand new.

Rudeofus · Feb 16, 2016

First of all, if your film base (visible in the regions between frames, i.e. where no exposure happened) look too dense, the reason shouldn't be incomplete bleaching, since there should be no silver in these regions to begin with.

Two things come to my mind:
1. The Rollei Digibase C-41 kit is listed as discontinued here
2. The same source sells a C-41 kit by Rollei, but not under the name "Digibase"

Can you tell us which kit you used, and where you got it from? Can you also tell us what the process liquids look like, especially their color?

Photo Engineer · Feb 16, 2016

If the areas between frames is dark it could be retained Silver Halide, or it could be retained AH backing or even retained CLS.

All of these will be removed by the treatment suggested.

PE

Abutate · Feb 16, 2016

http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/rollei-digibase-c-41-maxi-super-kit-5l/p3767

thats the kit i got.

Abutate · Feb 16, 2016

okay Update,

Re did everything you said,

The front shiny side is very clean sparkling now, however on the back there is still yellowish risdue/layer left.
so what it is that i am missing :S

I did the bleach, Fix and Stabalizer again.

Photo Engineer said:
Do a re-bleach, wash, fix, wash and stabilizer or re-blix, wash and stabilzer.

If the fixer is cloudy or yellowish it is bad.

PE

Sirius Glass · Feb 16, 2016

Abutate welcome to APUG

Abutate · Feb 16, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
Abutate welcome to APUG

thanks

Rudeofus · Feb 16, 2016

Abutate said:
The front shiny side is very clean sparkling now, however on the back there is still yellowish risdue/layer left.
so what it is that i am missing :S

The rear side could be some antihalation layer, which is sometimes realized as a layer with metallic silver. Since it is the bottom most layer, it will be the very last layer seeing complete bleaching.

Abutate said:
I did the bleach, Fix and Stabalizer again.

I'm beginning to wonder why you have such problems with bleaching. Your kit is brand new, as you stated, and it's even a kit with separate bleach and fixer. Could you please tell us how you mixed it, what the process liquids look like, and what your times&temperatures were for each process step, including wash?

Abutate · Feb 16, 2016

Rudeofus said:
The rear side could be some antihalation layer, which is sometimes realized as a layer with metallic silver. Since it is the bottom most layer, it will be the very last layer seeing complete bleaching.

I'm beginning to wonder why you have such problems with bleaching. Your kit is brand new, as you stated, and it's even a kit with separate bleach and fixer. Could you please tell us how you mixed it, what the process liquids look like, and what your times&temperatures were for each process step, including wash?

Hi

Pre Soaking (suggested 2-3 mins)
Developer (3 min 15 sec )
Wash (2 Mins)
Bleach (suggested 3 min – 4 min 20 sec)
Wash (2 Mins)
Fix (4 min 20 – 6 min 30 sec)
Stabiliser (suggested 1 min – 1 min 20 sec)

Thats what i followed.

Developer is mixer of A+B+C+Starter
Where is Bleach is dark greenish Which is mix of bleach and water.

Please note that my temp was 38.5 Degrees.

Thanks

Rudeofus · Feb 16, 2016

Just to be sure I am not missing anything obvious: there was a good wash step between fixer and stabilizer, yes?

PS: The bleach time appears short to me, but yes, that's what the manual suggests, so it should be fine.

Tatetate · Feb 16, 2016

Rudeofus said:
Just to be sure I am not missing anything obvious: there was a good wash step between fixer and stabilizer, yes?

PS: The bleach time appears short to me, but yes, that's what the manual suggests, so it should be fine.

Whats the ideal bleach time you recommend?
There was quick wash before stablizer.

pentaxuser · Feb 16, 2016

I think there is a post on APUG and one I think agreed by PE who knows his stuff that the bleach cycle should be 6 mins 30 sec and the fix cycle likewise. It seems there are a number of things wrong with the process as stated by Digibase. If what you have done has improved things then try going a bit further by using a bleach and fix stage as I have stated

pentaxuser

Photo Engineer · Feb 16, 2016

The C41 process is being tinkered with by all manufacturers including EK and Fuji, so it is hard to tell what is going on sometimes.

I do suggest longer bleach and fix times, and washing until the water is clear between bleach and fix and then after fix.

If the darkness is still present redo it, but do remember that color film is quite opaque until it dries. This is due to an index of refraction difference between wet and dry film. So, don't judge it until it is dry.

PE

Abutate · Feb 17, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
The C41 process is being tinkered with by all manufacturers including EK and Fuji, so it is hard to tell what is going on sometimes.

I do suggest longer bleach and fix times, and washing until the water is clear between bleach and fix and then after fix.

If the darkness is still present redo it, but do remember that color film is quite opaque until it dries. This is due to an index of refraction difference between wet and dry film. So, don't judge it until it is dry.

PE

Many thanks your input,

I will be doing second roll later on today and shall update here, Meanwhile if you can answer few questions i will be thankful.

What happens if we leave the film in developer more then suggested times?

Same with bleach?

Can we expose film to light after bleach?

Does it matter if bath times are long?

is it okay if i give it bath after every step?

Can bath be followed by stabilizer?

If i were to push process Kodak Porta 400 shot at 800? how would i do that in c41?

Thank you all. very kind of you.

AgX · Feb 17, 2016

Abutate said:
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/rollei-digibase-c-41-maxi-super-kit-5l/p3767

thats the kit i got.

That is not the current one (whatever that means...)
The current kit no longer contains a starter for the developer.

Rudeofus · Feb 17, 2016

Abutate said:
What happens if we leave the film in developer more then suggested times?

That's the same as if you push B&W film. You get higher contrast and more grain.

Abutate said:
Same with bleach?

No, bleach, fixer, wash and stabilizer are all bathes which run to completion. You can underbleach/fix/wash/stab, but not really overdo these.

Abutate said:
Can we expose film to light after bleach?

Yes, but not too much. Too much light would print out silver, which the fixer could then not remove unless you rebleach. If you are just curious to look at bleached film, the safest bet is that you inspect the film at leisure for any amount of time, then rebleach and continue the process.

Abutate said:
Does it matter if bath times are long?

See above, you can only overdo the color developer step, all other steps can be done as long as you see fit with no risk to your images.

Abutate said:
is it okay if i give it bath after every step?

If you mean with "give it a bath" that you give it a proper wash, it is not only ok, but absolutely recommended. Only the wash between CD and bleach is optional.

Abutate said:
Can bath be followed by stabilizer?

The stabilizer should be the absolutely last process liquid which touches your film. In your case the correct process sequence would be CD, (optional) wash, bleach, wash, fix, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, stabilize.

Abutate said:
If i were to push process Kodak Porta 400 shot at 800? how would i do that in c41?

By running CD for 3:45 instead of 3:15, everything else the same. The same warnings and limitations as with pushed B&W film apply.

Abutate · Feb 17, 2016

AgX said:
That is not the current one (whatever that means...)
The current kit no longer contains a starter for the developer.

Thanks, So whats the difference in performance and output?

markbarendt · Feb 17, 2016

Abutate said:
What happens if we leave the film in developer more then suggested times?

Abutate said:
If i were to push process Kodak Porta 400 shot at 800? how would i do that in c41?

Developing more than normal is called pushing or plus development. This is the only step that has to be just right with regard to time.

Pushing/plus development is a printing adjustment. It changes the contrast rate of the film and skews the color balance.

It DOES NOT correct for reduced exposure (shooting a 400 film at 800 or 1600 or ...).

Abutate said:
Can we expose film to light after bleach?

After fix is my recommendation.

Abutate said:
is it okay if i give it bath after every step?

Every step in the C41 process has a purpose and one of the jobs the bleach has, for example, is to stop development. The bleach is better at stopping development than water, a lot better.

So, I follow Kodak's pattern in their directions because their chemicals are the ones I use.

Abutate said:
Can bath be followed by stabilizer?

Stabilizer is always and forever the last bath anytime the film gets a bath.

Abutate · Feb 17, 2016

Please find attached scan. Thanks everyone for your help. Will see what happens on next roll

Abutate · Feb 17, 2016

Can someone tell me from the scan what went wrong with the process?

AgX · Feb 17, 2016

The former kit, you got, is taken from a commercial kit where one basically works with replenishing baths and goes and on once started.
Only for starting this process once a starter is needed.
The kit sold now is aimed at amateurs who either discard the developer or re-use it with prolonged processing times.

The results should be similar, as long one remains within the stated limitations.
As your kit is a former product, it basically may have turned bad, but seen the short time the new product is on the market that likely is not the case.

Digibase C41 First time and film is dark

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency