Differences in hybrid vs pure digital in B&W for prints?

[ymc226]

I am changing to digital full frame sensored camera for 135 format and keeping my MF 120 film cameras, shoot 100% B&W (Neopan in Xtol replenished); developed and printed in my own darkroom using fiber based paper and like the results but finding it is harder and harder to dedicate the time to set up, print/develop and clean up.

I have an Epson 3880, added Imageprint 9 RIP, use LR 4 (no Photoshop yet) and also a wide gamut NEC monitor to optimize my digital post-processing work flow which would have prints as the final product. I don't post pictures on the web or review on a monitor.

Compared to a completely digitally acquired and proccessed monochrome image printed via the injet, are there advantages to using a scanned 120 format negative that would be printed digitally? Is there more dynamic range in the scanned larger negative? Can you manipulate the contrast, exposure, highlights/shadows as much with a scanned file?

I am asking as there are rumblings of a new 120 scanner from Plustek and I don't want to give up on film especially if there are quality advantages with a hybrid process.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Well, the dynamic range in a film negative is much greater than in a single digital capture, because the film is an additive process - it builds density continuously with exposure. Digital capture works like transparencies - once you get past white, there is no return - detail lost is detail lost forever. And IMHO, if you are working in black-and-white, there is no equal to a film-based original capture.

 

[timparkin]

Compared to a completely digitally acquired and proccessed monochrome image printed via the injet, are there advantages to using a scanned 120 format negative that would be printed digitally? Is there more dynamic range in the scanned larger negative? Can you manipulate the contrast, exposure, highlights/shadows as much with a scanned file?

http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/tmp/d3x-bw.jpg
http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/tmp/mamiya7.jpg

Now obviously the mamiya is scanned on a drum scanner but it's the potential of film. I imagine a Nikon or the new Plustek would get a result that still beat the D3X (or possibly D800) by a bit but then if you did find an image you loved, you could send off for a drum scan.

As for the film itself, colour portra 400 has about 5 or 6 stops more than the latest digital cameras (so about 16-18 stops) and black and white potentially gets that much with some trick developing - I think it would probably be about 12 stops at a push with normal developing (where the last few are in the shoulder roll off). I haven't tested black and white myself but have done so with the colour neg.

Tim

 

[artobest]

Tim, your comparisons over the last few months have been incredibly revealing - thanks very much. If only the whole internet could see them, then we could all get some peace.

 

[ymc226]

Thanks for all of the responses.

As I just became interested in the darkroom process only 4-5 years ago when I began developing and printing, my understanding and experience is not so deep.

Given the increased dynamic range potential of B&W film compared to a digital file, how much dynamic range can be printed on to an inkjet glossy paper using the Epson 3880 with its conventional ink set using a scanned 120 negative compared to a file acquired from a digital camera. What I am asking if most of the advantage in the scanned film in terms of broader DR can be taken advantage of or is it lost with the limits of the paper be it glossy or matte.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

That's several dissertations worth of discussion. Some will say you can get an equal print through factory inks, papers and software through tweaking settings. Many others will disagree, and there will be significant disagreement amongst the dissenters as to which software/ink/paper combination is best. This will be a steep learning curve - I'm starting on it now just for color work, which is challenging enough but doable with factory inks and software.

 

[timparkin]

Given the increased dynamic range potential of B&W film compared to a digital file, how much dynamic range can be printed on to an inkjet glossy paper using the Epson 3880 with its conventional ink set using a scanned 120 negative compared to a file acquired from a digital camera.

You can print as many stops of dynamic range as you like on any material. During printing, dynamic range gets compressed to the output media. Printed material typically only has a dynamic range of about four stops. It's how you compress the source (film/digital)'s dynamic range that is interesting. You can either create a linear relationship between input and output brightness but that ends up with a very flat low contrast picture or you can compress the highlights and shadows so that you end up with something quite contrasty but with lots of detail in the highlights and shadows albeit difficult to differentiate. Like someone else has said - there is a lot of information needed to answer your question in full.

In short however, you can almost definitely extract more easily visible dynamic range from film by scanning and post processing than by darkroom printing. whether it will look better is a different matter