Didn't Ansel Adams called it the "Fuzzy wuzzies"?

[DREW WILEY]

We all agree on a lot of this. But the Sierra Club which solicits funds around here (to which we sometimes donate) is based in Berkeley, and involves a lot of students looking for a cause, as usual, who don't have the slightest idea of what they are talking about because they've never been there. One day I hauled my 8x10 out to the tip of Tomales Point - about a 7 mi round-trip hike - and right at the very end of that thing were about 20 S.Clubbers having a debate about population control in Africa. Fine. Do it somewhere else, rather than creating your own population traffic jam on NP land. So, without saying a word, I just stepped in the middle of them, plopped down my huge pack and set up my big Ries wooden tripod while they stared with their little REI book bags. They got the point and moved somewhere less obstructive. Well, you can imagine what is was like back when trailheads basically used only by a few local were suddenly policed with a messy camp of thirty or forty
volunteers with an attitude trying to boss you around. I'm truly grateful for all the formal designation of wilderness which did transpire; I just don't care much for when a particular group thinks the rules apply to everyone but them. So I'm more an admirer of what the Nature Conservancy has accomplished with darn less fuss and darn fewer lawsuits simply by talking to ranchers etc than taking an attitude of superiority to them. Get rid of all the cattle in some places and what you get in place
of them is concrete and asphalt sprawl. And in many places, now that the original big herbivores are all gone, cattle hooves are the only thing properly aerating the soil. Ecologists are taking note (I've got a degree in field biology myself). But I have zero sympathy for Cliven Bundy types... End of diatribe, and back to petty arguments over photographic issues.

 

[Sirius Glass]

According to the Sierra Club, it is permitted to use snowshoes on the snow, but skiis are not allowed because their god has not blessed skiis. Therefore all skiers are damned to Hell by the Sierra Club. Yes, they do some good, but they are intolerant of anyone that does not act exactly as they have ordained. If you have any mobility issues according to them, you must not see anything in nature or you must immediately die. If you cannot hike 200km in a day with a 400kg backpack, you do not deserve to use their oxygen.

 

[faberryman]

According to the Sierra Club, it is permitted to use snowshoes on the snow, but skiis are not allowed because their god has not blessed skiis. Therefore all skiers are damned to Hell by the Sierra Club. Yes, they do some good, but they are intolerant of anyone that does not act exactly as they have ordained. If you have any mobility issues according to them, you must not see anything in nature or you must immediately die. If you cannot hike 200km in a day with a 400kg backpack, you do not deserve to use their oxygen.

Hyperbole?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hyperbole?

No. actual experience.

 

[faberryman]

No. actual experience.

You have actual experience with 200km hikes and 400kg backpacks? Advocating death for people with disabilities?

 

[Sirius Glass]

You have actual experience with 200km hikes and 400kg backpacks? Advocating death for people with disabilities?

No, Sierra Club members at one of their meeting told me unless I could backpack and camp hiking very long distances, then I did not deserve to see National Parks, National Monuments, or BLM land. They said unless I could hike those distances and backpack in and out that I "was not welcome in natural surroundings" [their words].

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, I routinely carried packs up to 90 lbs (200 kg) for days on end over steep high-altitude terrain, often off-trail with Class 3 pitches. That kind of thing is routine in the mountaineering community, even if view cameras aren't. But that was when I was a teenager prior to my mid-50's, when I bought a light little Ebony 4x5 folder and started using Quickloads. But on dayhikes, I preferred 8x10. Same today, but I try to lighten my pack as much as possible, so have resorted to roll film backs on long trips now that Quickloads are gone, or else its back to the film changing tent. And I switch out my big Ries wooden tripods for something carbon fiber. But I'm still fairly young - not even 70 for another year. Mobility issues for me are the occasional gout attack in the toes; but it's amazing to see how certain old friends of mine have kept up a fair degree of outdoor activity despite themselves or a spouse having acquired some serious mobility issue. Another one of my long-time co-workers had a brother who was one of the four founders of the movement which led to the American Disabilities Act. And many of the Regional Parks around here contain a certain amount of trail mileage dedicated to handicapped use, plus more for horseback, hiking etc. Sensitivity to those issues is always important as well as preserving certain other areas as relatively unchanged wilderness for its own sake. We could do with less golf courses, but I better not elaborate on that one.

 

[MattKing]

Well, I routinely carried packs up to 90 lbs (200 kg) for days on end

Sorry Drew.
It is 90 kg = 198 pounds.
A 200 kg pack would be 440 pounds.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I do not care about golf course, but if I wanted all golf course would be eliminated, but then I would be like the Sierra Club.

 

[DREW WILEY]

At least make it fair. If its open range, then there will be gopher holes everywhere, and everyone will be guaranteed a hole in one. Sorry about the blooper, 440 lbs,
no. At my age, I'm scheming how to get a pack down to 50 lbs. Last yr, I started out with about 70 for a hundred-miler.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

No, Sierra Club members at one of their meeting told me unless I could backpack and camp hiking very long distances, then I did not deserve to see National Parks, National Monuments, or BLM land. They said unless I could hike those distances and backpack in and out that I "was not welcome in natural surroundings" [their words].

This should be surprising, but it isn't: in almost every aspect of life there are self-proclaimed arbiters of the proper way of doing things.

 

[jtk]

No, Sierra Club members at one of their meeting told me unless I could backpack and camp hiking very long distances, then I did not deserve to see National Parks, National Monuments, or BLM land. They said unless I could hike those distances and backpack in and out that I "was not welcome in natural surroundings" [their words].

Total bogus BS. No Sierra Club Member told you that. Maybe you invent people who tell you what you want to hear.

 

[jtk]

I do not care about golf course, but if I wanted all golf course would be eliminated, but then I would be like the Sierra Club.

More BS. Sierra Club isn't opposed to golf courses.

 

[jtk]

No. actual experience.

Sirius lives in a fantasy world .

 

[jtk]

Hyperbole?

Not "hyperbole." Pure BS. It's good old Sirius.

We all agree on a lot of this. But the Sierra Club which solicits funds around here (to which we sometimes donate) is based in Berkeley, and involves a lot of students looking for a cause, as usual, who don't have the slightest idea of what they are talking about because they've never been there. One day I hauled my 8x10 out to the tip of Tomales Point - about a 7 mi round-trip hike - and right at the very end of that thing were about 20 S.Clubbers having a debate about population control in Africa. Fine. Do it somewhere else, rather than creating your own population traffic jam on NP land. So, without saying a word, I just stepped in the middle of them, plopped down my huge pack and set up my big Ries wooden tripod while they stared with their little REI book bags. They got the point and moved somewhere less obstructive. Well, you can imagine what is was like back when trailheads basically used only by a few local were suddenly policed with a messy camp of thirty or forty
volunteers with an attitude trying to boss you around. I'm truly grateful for all the formal designation of wilderness which did transpire; I just don't care much for when a particular group thinks the rules apply to everyone but them. So I'm more an admirer of what the Nature Conservancy has accomplished with darn less fuss and darn fewer lawsuits simply by talking to ranchers etc than taking an attitude of superiority to them. Get rid of all the cattle in some places and what you get in place
of them is concrete and asphalt sprawl. And in many places, now that the original big herbivores are all gone, cattle hooves are the only thing properly aerating the soil. Ecologists are taking note (I've got a degree in field biology myself). But I have zero sympathy for Cliven Bundy types... End of diatribe, and back to petty arguments over photographic issues.

Sierra Club isn't based in Berkeley. Pure BS for political purposes, obviously.

 

[jtk]

This should be surprising, but it isn't: in almost every aspect of life there are self-proclaimed arbiters of the proper way of doing things.

Perhaps it'd be better not to be taken in by fantasy tales? I'm not telling you what's "proper," just suggesting that some folks might know how to do some things better than some other people do.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Drew, being bashed together by the tree letter troll raises our statue, eh?

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Perhaps it'd be better not to be taken in by fantasy tales? I'm not telling you what's "proper," just suggesting that some folks might know how to do some things better than some other people do.

Just to clarify: I was definitely not making any reference to you nor to anyone else in this thread, nor to the content of this thread.

As to whether the story is real, yes, I believed it - but I didn't take the alleged remark as being representative of the organization - only the person who is alleged to have said it. Regardless, I have known one person, a friend's wife, who held similar views about who "deserves" to see nature.

 

[removed account4]

huh never been to the seirra club or its trails nor do i own one of their calendars but
from all i have heard they put out a pretty good soda pop ( i don't drink soda ) ,,, its shockingly refreshing.

 

[jtk]

According to the Sierra Club, it is permitted to use snowshoes on the snow, but skiis are not allowed because their god has not blessed skiis. Therefore all skiers are damned to Hell by the Sierra Club. Yes, they do some good, but they are intolerant of anyone that does not act exactly as they have ordained. If you have any mobility issues according to them, you must not see anything in nature or you must immediately die. If you cannot hike 200km in a day with a 400kg backpack, you do not deserve to use their oxygen.

Yet more entirely cooked up political BS.

 

[jtk]

Just to clarify: I was definitely not making any reference to you nor to anyone else in this thread, nor to the content of this thread.

As to whether the story is real, yes, I believed it - but I didn't take the alleged remark as being representative of the organization - only the person who is alleged to have said it. Regardless, I have known one person, a friend's wife, who held similar views about who "deserves" to see nature.

We are well justified when we curse purported friends for their choices in women but we're around the bend if we have to invent people to support foolish off-topic arguments.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

We are well justified when we curse purported friends for their choices in women but we're around the bend if we have to invent people to support foolish off-topic arguments.

I invented no one.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Perhaps it'd be better not to be taken in by fantasy tales? I'm not telling you what's "proper," just suggesting that some folks might know how to do some things better than some other people do.

No, you are throwing the BS. The Sierra Club does a lot of good, but they are elitist and if you do not do things their way you do not deserve to be in nature.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hyperbole?

Ya think? What way your first clue?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Yeah snowshoes... I haven't used em for awhile. I preferred them for the fact you can maneuver closer to rocks etc than on skis, and more easily stomp the snow down for an acceptable tripod platform. When I was first married, my wife wanted to try out a pair. So she stumbled about twenty yards up a gentle slope, stood atop a big stump, and raised an ice axe in the air with a little flag attached to it, just as if she had conquered Everest. That was the beginning and end of her mountaineering career, but otherwise a cute photo.