Did I score some Good Stuff... Brovira

[kb244]

So I got my hands on a 100 pack (opened but looks like at least over 90 sheets are in there ) 5x7 Agfa-Gevaert Brovira #6 Extra white glossy (though the one sheet I pulled out in the light to inspect was yellowish and curled and very hard).

Anyways I decided to hastily just make a contact print or two and try to develop them to see if there was any viability left to the paper. I did not want to wake my wife as the enlarger is in the walkin closet tho I did later sneak in and grab the contact printer (just the black frame with a glass cover), I used my darkroom safelight as a quick split second exposure by removing the dome. Developed them in dektol.

The paper got pretty soft pretty fast and was quite clear it was fiber based paper as I moved it to the stop. First time printing fiber paper, but I knew that I would have to wash longer and soak longer in each stage and such, and that if I do dry it I need to hang it to keep it straight. I don't have an actual metal dryer so I don't think I'll be getting the 'glossy' look.

But at least I know it works, and I'll just have to figure out what to dial in for the contrast when I start doing test strips on my beseler 23C II.

Any pointers.

 

[Petzi]

1. This paper is really old. I would say over 30 years.
2. Looks like you didn't give it enough exposure.
3. It is not VC paper.

 

[kb244]

1) I figured.
2) I Also figured, I only wanted to see if the paper was still "alive" and not fogged to hell.
3) I just realized that after going to bed thinking (wait it's a #6)

This was advice I was given on another forum when I checked this morning.

This is the most contrasty paper Agfa ever made. It is as close to litho paper as it gets. Rich in silver. You will find that it probably will not fog even at this age. If you do get some fog print it in a bit and use a dilute bath of Potassium Ferrocyanide (not the Kodak crap in the Sepia toner envelope, that has two other crappy agents you don’t want). Use this after the fixing and be certain to re fix after the bleach bath. The Dektol you are using can be modified with a 10% solution of Potassium Bromide to restrain fog (the route I would use). This is an ultra Bromide based paper. It will NOT respond to the use of filters. It is of little or NO chloride so the use of 'cool' enlarger lamps like the 211 or 212 are called for, do not use the 213 which is intended for warm tone chloride based papers. Your Beseler takes a 211 only or the smaller 110 volt 75 watt lamps only.
This paper will just scream in gold toner. It can be made to shift to the true steel blue color that the Kodak Gold Toner got the name of 'Blue Toner'. You will find flat negatives excel with this paper.
One last thing, NO short development times. The paper needs a minimum of 3.5 minutes. Five Minutes to seven is what was used. Is you want the vary best surface of this old Agfa paper then run it through Pakisol, follow the directions to the letter for mixing and soak. You do not need a hot drum, just a degreased Ferrotyping plate (looks like a mirror). Coat it down on the plate and leave it alone for twelve hours, it will be pure static surfaced when you take it off by a tine point of its corner, peal it off in one move but SLOWLY, it will look like a mirror, your NOT done. Put a fine towel on a flat surface then put the paper between REAL linen, set an electric Iron to SILK, Iron the print once warm for two minutes then look at the print, continue till the surface gets a non-mirror front but looks wet, this is what the old Brovira looked like when turned to perfection. By the way Brovira refers to Bavaria, that is Southern Germany; the factory was at the edge of the old German SS Koncern (Base), I lived a block from it for years in Germany and bought this right out of the factory. That was 1969/71, a life time ago.

Here is a scan for general curiosity.

 

[Ted Harris]

Brovira #6 was one of my favorie papers. I used to use it a lot for figure work in the early 1970's. Brovira was discontinued sometime in the late 1970's to early 1980's and the #6 grade even earlier IIRC.

I have no clue as to how to work with 30+ year old paper but I am jealous.

 

[Mike Wilde]

don't despair over the 'extra hard' part

Old photo papers, from what I have seen, loose contrast with time. So what was once extra hard may now print quite nicely. They also get slower, so yes, more time is needed to print them.

FB developer bath time is usally also at least 2 minutes, and often longer, wheras RC is usally fully developed in 2 minutes in most dev solutions.

Don't sweat the no ferrotype plates/no glossy issue. Air dried FB comes out looking like pearl/semi matte RC paper, which is what I usually prefer anyways

If you haven't printed FB before, be warned that it needs more fixation, preferably 2 baths worth, and usually a trip through a hypo clearing solution to keep the wash water time and water bills within reason. Older photo manuals have all the details you need. There is an excellent david vestal mid 70's book that will get you on the right track printing fibre.

If the paper is still to contrasty in your normal developer, pm me, and I will mail you a dry powder low contrast print developer to see if you can tame it that way. Whe you mix from scratch there are always possibilities that you can adapt with.

 

[kb244]

I'm thinking bout actually doing 4x5 contact prints of Kodalith shots I've done.

Such as this one below that I'm going to try when I get home from work.

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

I picked up maybe a dozen packs of various grades at an estate sale. Sadly, all but a few were fogged beyond hope. The others are in the freezer, waiting for a special occasion! Something like yer neg above. Nice image.

 

[kb244]

Hrm what about toning the paper ( Even though it has a slight tone already ), I have a bottle of unopened Agfa Viradon (brown towner, 1+50 dilution recomended for 2-10 mins), any issues with using a toner on it?

 

[kevs]

Karl,

My tip: make sure that your stop bath is fresh, because old papers have a habit of staining, caused by the presence of developer retained in the paper and on fingers, tongs, gloves etc. Stop for at least three minutes to allow the acid to penetrate the paper. Also, wash your hands after lifting the print from the developer - if you use tongs or gloves, wash those too.

Brovira is a lovely paper, a pure cold-tone bromide. Mike is correct, it will be softer than a Grade 6. I have some (2 sheets left!) and it's now about a Grade Two - ideal.

 

[Alex Bishop-Thorpe]

I have 2 boxes of this and one packet of 25, I got a stack of papers with my enlarger and now I'm a bit more suspicious of their age...They've worked fine so far though, no fogging, but I've only tested one of the boxes. There's also a pack of something called Brovira-Speed.
Thanks for posting this topic, forced me to go look at my stack of papers and pine for a darkroom a bit more. Very nice photos too, I like the little cat.

 

[Jon Shiu]

Brovira Gr. 6 is a beautiful paper. I have printed some in the last few years and got great results. Seemed to print equal to gr 4. Doesn't need any fancy toning or surface treatment, in my opionion.

Jon

 

[kb244]

So here is a more serious print taken time to expose properly and what not. The image was shot off my Crown Graphic 4x5 with Kodalith shot at ISO 12 and developed in Dektol.

I did a contact print last night on one of the sheets under the enlarger. The first test was to cover half the print and expose one side at f/11 for 10 seconds and the other for 20 seconds. Develop for at least 3 minutes in Dektol 1+2 @ ~68F, Stop for at least 3 minutes, wash in fresh water for about 2, and place in rapid fixer and fix for about 7 or 8 minutes ( though I could get away with 3 to 5 ), and then wash for at least 20 minutes in running water tub.

The 20 second half was pretty much nearly blacked out with some distinguishable areas of highlights, and the 10 second half was pretty dark, looking at it I judged about 2 and a half or 2 and a quarter stops too much exposure on the paper. So when I did my second print, I figured I'd dial down to f/22 and expose for about 8 to 9 seconds. I then placed it on a 16x20 ferrortyping plate face down and used a rubber roller to squeegee off some water, and let it dry overnight.

the emulsion was sticking and the corners were tearing and such, so after a lil bit of thinking, I took it into the showers sprayed it down with hot water letting it soak and peeled it off as i was spraying it down, then flipped it over and squeegeed on top of the ferro with the base side down (pic facing me), dried what I could, took it over to the stove and slowly heated the bottom and let the water steam off the print.

So here is a scan of the print itself (curve tweaked ever so slightly so it matched best to how I see the print itself)

Contact print - 8.5 seconds (f/22 on 75W enlarger)
Dektol 3mins 68F/20C 1+2

Here is a earlier scan I did of the same negative some time ago (funny how much scanners can resolve from a negative). For the record the scan is backwards, not the print above.

I'd say I got pretty close... arguably so. Least I got the exposure down on the first guess between the two halves of the test print.

Now I just gota figure why/how the emulsion stuck, and if maybe I just squeegeed off too much water. I probably killed my FB print in the long run, but it looks pretty good right now except for the edge around the actual print which is torn a lil ( not seen above because I cropped the picture from the couple inch of black matting border around it)

 

[kb244]

Bit better this time, I printed an 35mm shot of mine onto the brovira paper. I also tried it on the ferrotyping plate to get the gloss after applying pledge onto the surface. I guess it worked a little too well since the print was curling off the surface as it dried until it fell off, quite glossy but not flat. and the glossy surface had what looked like tiny little dimples only noticed in the glossy sheen. I guess I'll have to wipe it down some more or 'clean' it real good somehow. Anyways here's a scan to the best of accuracy possible to the original print.