Did I buy the wrong fixer?

RattyMouse · Dec 22, 2013

This weekend I finally bought chemicals to develop my own black and white film. I bought a package of D76 and a bottle of Kodak Fixer. However, looking at the B & H page for this fixer now shows that there are two bottles, not one. I only have one bottle.

Do I not have enough fixer to run a black and white processing?

This is very confusing. I dont have the bottle in front of me now as I'm at work. But my guess is that I have bottle A.

Here is the B & H link.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27631-REG/Kodak_1464106_Rapid_Fixer_Solutions_A.html

Truzi · Dec 22, 2013

If you do have the A solution, you are probably ok. You probably don't need hardener for most modern films.

I'm sure someone who knows better than I will be along shortly.

RattyMouse · Dec 22, 2013

Truzi said:
If you do have the A solution, you are probably ok. You probably don't need hardener for most modern films.

I'm sure someone who knows better than I will be along shortly.

Is two stage fixing common? It seems to add to the work load to process film. I dont recall ever reading about people doing 2 stage fixes.

Tom1956 · Dec 22, 2013

You bought Rapid Fixer. Kodak Fixer is a powder.

Christopher Walrath · Dec 22, 2013

And according to the ad on B&H you are missing a bottle. I have had this happen before. Are you sure you did not get the second bottle as it is MUCH smaller than the first. Could be easy to overlook.

RattyMouse · Dec 22, 2013

Tom1956 said:
You bought Rapid Fixer. Kodak Fixer is a powder.

Is this good or bad? I am very confused now.

RattyMouse · Dec 22, 2013

Christopher Walrath said:
And according to the ad on B&H you are missing a bottle. I have had this happen before. Are you sure you did not get the second bottle as it is MUCH smaller than the first. Could be easy to overlook.

I bought a single bottle. I saw the word fixer and assumed that I was OK. No one speaks English in the store where I buy film so I am 100% on my own.

I am seriously confused as to whether what I bought is worth anything to me now. The store is 8 miles or so from my house so it is not easy to get to during the week.

eddie · Dec 22, 2013

You're fine, as long as it's Solution A. I use the same fixer, but never use the hardener (Part B).

Tom1956 · Dec 22, 2013

It's all preference. I always used plain Kodak Fixer and mixed up the powder into a gallon and was always sure that was all any fixer needed to be. The Rapid Fixer is a little bit more nasty stuff, but works quicker, if that's important to you. Rapid Fixer came in a tall suare box with a big bottle and a little one. The little one is the hardener. I always still use hardener (or Kodak Fixer, which has alum in it). All in your preference. The Rapid will do a better job on T-Max which is hard to clear in the first place.

Roger Cole · Dec 22, 2013

Tom1956 said:
You bought Rapid Fixer. Kodak Fixer is a powder.

Not necessarily. Kodak also makes Kodafix, which is an all liquid concentrate version of Kodak Fixer. It comes in a single bottle. I used to use it.

If that's what you have, you're fine, but will have to fix longer. It isn't Rapid Fixer, it's identical, when diluted, to powder form Kodak fixer mixed for use. Well "identical" in use as far as I ever saw anyway. It's a hardening, non-rapid ordinary fixer.

Dip a piece of film leader into the mixed fixer and time how long it takes to clear. Fix for at least twice that long, three times that long to be really conservative with modern films. It'll take longer than Rapid Fixer but work fine.

EDIT: This is what I'm talking about and what I suspect he has. It used to come in rectangular bottles:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1464080-Kodak-Kodafix-to-Make-1-Gallon

Tom1956 · Dec 22, 2013

I don't think they've made Kodafix in ages. Kodak Fixer is a powder.

Roger Cole · Dec 22, 2013

I KNOW "Kodak Fixer" is a powder, but they certainly do make Kodafix; I linked above to Freestyle where you can buy it. Click the link and buy some if you like.

Truzi · Dec 22, 2013

I have some Kodak powdered fix mixed up. It is fine, but I think I'd really like rapid fix, especially for t-grain film. I do have some Ilford rapid fix, but I will use that for paper (don't want to use film in the same fix after paper).

Not a question of good or bad - more one of what you want. I think the Kodak powdered fixer is an hardening fixer. It is also different chemically (so not "rapid"). I believe (but could be wrong) that the shelf-life of the powder (before you add water) is longer than that of unopened liquid rapid fix. A two-part fixer gives you the option of adding hardener, and rapid fix simply does the job quicker. I'm sure there is more.

eddie · Dec 22, 2013

Kodafix is still available.

There are a few reasons I don't use the hardener:
1- It's not necessary with most modern film emulsions.
2- I like to use one fixer for both film and paper (although the dilutions are different). If you tone your prints, it's more difficult after a hardening fix.

RattyMouse · Dec 22, 2013

Roger Cole said:
Not necessarily. Kodak also makes Kodafix, which is an all liquid concentrate version of Kodak Fixer. It comes in a single bottle. I used to use it.

If that's what you have, you're fine, but will have to fix longer. It isn't Rapid Fixer, it's identical, when diluted, to powder form Kodak fixer mixed for use. Well "identical" in use as far as I ever saw anyway. It's a hardening, non-rapid ordinary fixer.

Dip a piece of film leader into the mixed fixer and time how long it takes to clear. Fix for at least twice that long, three times that long to be really conservative with modern films. It'll take longer than Rapid Fixer but work fine.

EDIT: This is what I'm talking about and what I suspect he has. It used to come in rectangular bottles:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1464080-Kodak-Kodafix-to-Make-1-Gallon

This might be what I have. I really should not have posted until I got home to re-examine it. I was just alarmed to see a second bottle.

On another note, prices here in China are brutal. I paid $20 for that bottle, not $8!

RattyMouse · Dec 22, 2013

Thanks everyone! I'll know tonight after work what I've got.

Roger Cole · Dec 22, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
If you have a bottle called Kodafix, you have a hardening rapid fixer. This is ok, but be sure to read the directions as films, and particularly papers can require longer washing times if they are fixed in a hardening fixer.

Kodakfix is a hardening NON rapid fixer. It works in practice exactly like Kodak Fixer you mix up from powder. I used a lot of it back in the old days.

Tom1956 · Dec 22, 2013

Well, one thing's for sure. The OP has some fixer of some kind, so that's the important thing.

Roger Cole · Dec 22, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
Roger, are you sure what you used to use is the same thing? They currently call it Kodafix 200. And the MSDS indicates Ammonium Thiosulfate (rapid fix). They also currently describe it as "fast acting", admittedly a little vague, but it appears to be a rapid fix.

Well no. It's quite possible that "Kodafix" changed from one to the other. But why on earth would they sell one that is nothing more than Rapid Fix mixed with part A and B combined?

My apologies if it's Rapid Fix. Doesn't seem to make much marketing sense but, in any case, I suspect it is what he has, and it will work fine, just fix for 2-3x the time it takes to clear.

RattyMouse · Dec 22, 2013

Roger Cole said:
Well no. It's quite possible that "Kodafix" changed from one to the other. But why on earth would they sell one that is nothing more than Rapid Fix mixed with part A and B combined?

My apologies if it's Rapid Fix. Doesn't seem to make much marketing sense but, in any case, I suspect it is what he has, and it will work fine, just fix for 2-3x the time it takes to clear.

I will be using an acid stop bath between developing and fixing.

Roger Cole · Dec 22, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
Roger, sorry about that - I edited my previous post. You might be right. I seem to have confused myself here. Hopefully I haven't confused anyone else too much.

No problem Michael.

Michael R 1974 said:
EDIT: thanks, Roger. Re-reading the MSDS, Kodak's literature on Kodafix (they currently call it Kodafix 200), and some processing instructions for TMax, I'm now confused. Well, hopefully ratty mouse has Kodak Rapid Fixer part A.

Well if it's RF Part A, well and good, but if it's Kodafix it does work fine, just takes longer. I used to use Rapid Fix for film back in the day and Kodafix for RC paper when I printed on a lot of RC, as it was cheaper and the instructions did specify half strength to mix it for paper (like Rapid Fix in that regard though - so thinking about it I'm less sure it's "just like Kodak Fixer mixed from powder" though the TIMES, when I pressed it into service on film because I ran out of RF, were the same as Kodak Fixer.)

In any case Ratty, you're fine, just mix per instructions for film and fix for 2x-3x the time it takes to clear a piece of film leader. No worries.

mfohl · Dec 22, 2013

Kodafix

Tom1956 said:
I don't think they've made Kodafix in ages. Kodak Fixer is a powder.

I have used and continue to use Kodafix. Works for both film and paper, but with different dilutions. I just bought several bottles from my local camera store - Midwest Photo. They had to order it, but it is available.

Works well ...

Oops. I just read the intervening posts. It may take a little longer to fix, but that's OK with me.

Karl A · Dec 22, 2013

Kodak currently has three fixers available, in fact the liquid ones just changed to the new packaging in a rectangular bottle (allegedly due to a supplier change):

Fixer: powder, hardening fixer, non-rapid (sodium thiosulfate based)

Kodafix: liquid, hardening fixer, rapid (ammonium thiosulfate based)

Rapid Fixer: liquid, separate small bottle of hardener, so can be used as non-hardening if you prefer to use the fixer as is (which I do), rapid (ammonium thiosulfate based)

All work fine with films and papers, so nothing to worry about at all! Just follow the directions.

MattKing · Dec 22, 2013

Karl A said:
Kodak currently has three fixers available, in fact the liquid ones just changed to the new packaging in a rectangular bottle (allegedly due to a supplier change):

Fixer: powder, hardening fixer, non-rapid (sodium thiosulfate based)

Kodafix: liquid, hardening fixer, rapid (ammonium thiosulfate based)

Rapid Fixer: liquid, separate small bottle of hardener, so can be used as non-hardening if you prefer to use the fixer as is (which I do), rapid (ammonium thiosulfate based)

All work fine with films and papers, so nothing to worry about at all! Just follow the directions.

The Kodafix I have been using recently isn't a rapid fixer - the recommended times on the bottle are the same as for the powdered fixer.

I don't know if, with the change to the manufacturer in Germany, they have replaced it with a rapid fixer, but the previous version certainly wasn't rapid.

I've actually not been using it for fixing - I use rapid fixer for that.

I've been using it to harden prints after toning - it is the easiest way to access hardener, and the liquid version is very convenient.

Karl A · Dec 23, 2013

MattKing said:
The Kodafix I have been using recently isn't a rapid fixer - the recommended times on the bottle are the same as for the powdered fixer.

I don't know if, with the change to the manufacturer in Germany, they have replaced it with a rapid fixer, but the previous version certainly wasn't rapid.

I've actually not been using it for fixing - I use rapid fixer for that.

I've been using it to harden prints after toning - it is the easiest way to access hardener, and the liquid version is very convenient.

That's interesting that they would recommend the same times with Kodafix and powdered fixer. I saw on the label it is made with ammonium thiosulfate so I assumed it was rapid. I am pretty sure the formulation didn't change with the new packaging, but it might be interesting to see if the instructions are the same.

You just made me think of something, I wonder if the separate hardener from Kodak Rapid Fixer can be used just as a hardener in the situation you mentioned? I have several of those small bottles which I have no use for. I do use brown toner regularly but I never bothered to use a hardener after.

Did I buy the wrong fixer?

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