Dialing in expired paper

[CB_]

I recently came into about 600 sheets of well stored expired Kodak Endura in various variants and sizes, and am excited to get to printing on it. However before I dive in and start wasting paper, I was curious if anyone had some recommendations for methods of dialing in color/exposure on these various paper stocks so that I can make use of them as efficiently as possible.

 

[Rudeofus]

I was once handed a large stash of long expired RA-4 paper including small and large formats, and spent a few evenings trying to get acceptable prints. I was ready to recalibrate filtration, I was willing to accept some degree of color crossover, but I could not accept the extremely low contrast images and the extremely washed out colors which I got as a result of paper age. I am sad to say, that I threw it all away after a few months of scowling at that stash, since I was unable to produce a single decent print with this old paper. Switching back to my only moderately aged stash (think: 5 years old) immediately brought back the joy of RA-4 printing.

I have also tried some of these frequently recommended contrast boosting methods, rebleach&redevelop as well as contrast boost through peroxide in color developer. Both seemed to increase contrast by some small amount, but not nearly enough to restore 20-30 year old paper to its old glory.

Therefore I recommend you do a dark room session with your stash of paper, see what happens and whether you can put it to use. Maybe you can find subject matter which benefits from weak contrast and muted colors, maybe your stash shows fewer signs of age than my stash did.

 

[CB_]

Rudeofus, when I was writing this question I was considering the fact that I had already decided to print with the paper, so that being said I am only really interested in techniques and processes with which to dial in and keep track of color and exposure consistently. I've printed on plenty of expired paper before, including Endura, and prefer it in addition to my regular work with fresh paper because of the warm tonality and soft contrast of the fogged material.

 

[pentaxuser]

I hope this does not sound argumentative but would your previous experience of expired paper not give you a good guide as to what to do with expired Kodak Endura?

I'd have thought that each set of expired paper may be different in terms of what is needed and no-one can give advice that is hard and fast for all expired Kodak Endura

It might help if you printed some sheets and then show us the results when the experienced RA4 printers can give advice

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[btaylor]

Oh yikes. I am pleased to see you have had success in the past with expired RA4 paper. I have not- I found it a complete waste of time and chemistry. But I wish you luck in your quest- all you can do is start printing with it and see where the paper leads you, there is no other way. Start with a nice photo of an 18% gray card and see how close you can print to it as a reference.

 

[CB_]

I hope this does not sound argumentative but would your previous experience of expired paper not give you a good guide as to what to do with expired Kodak Endura?

I get what you're saying, and maybe my original question wasn't worded correctly. Expired paper is the specific context of my situation, however the gist of what I am looking for are organization/testing systems for color papers in general from more experienced printers than myself.

 

[MattKing]

Do you have a negative that can serve as a good reference negative - essentially your own "Shirley" negative? You may end up handling and using that negative a lot, so it shouldn't be one that you are going to want to make prints of particular meaning in the future.
If so, using your normal procedure, make a rally good print from it on current paper, and record details about magnification, exposure, and filtration used. If you have a colour analyzer, take representative and repeatable measurements and record them as well.
Now take some of your expired paper, and with the exact same magnification, make the best print you can from that negative. Again, record details details about magnification, exposure, and filtration used. If you have a colour analyzer, take representative and repeatable measurements and record them as well.
Now compare the results and the two prints. The differences will tell you a lot about the sort of adjustments needed.
You may also find it useful to have different "Shirley" negatives for different types of lighting. A portrait "Shirley", a high contrast still life "Shirley" and a lower contrast landscape "Shirley" might be examples.

 

[koraks]

organization/testing systems for color papers

Uhm, just print as you'd always do...make a test strip adjust Y & M, and keep at it until you're there. It doesn't matter much if you're using expired paper or a difficult negative; the principle is quite the same. I'd start with some negatives with a decent range of colors and a neutral area; something like a colorful cityscape in daytime with a patch of cloudy sky for instance.

 

[CB_]

Do you have a negative that can serve as a good reference negative - essentially your own "Shirley" negative? You may end up handling and using that negative a lot, so it shouldn't be one that you are going to want to make prints of particular meaning in the future.
If so, using your normal procedure, make a rally good print from it on current paper, and record details about magnification, exposure, and filtration used. If you have a colour analyzer, take representative and repeatable measurements and record them as well.
Now take some of your expired paper, and with the exact same magnification, make the best print you can from that negative. Again, record details details about magnification, exposure, and filtration used. If you have a colour analyzer, take representative and repeatable measurements and record them as well.
Now compare the results and the two prints. The differences will tell you a lot about the sort of adjustments needed.
You may also find it useful to have different "Shirley" negatives for different types of lighting. A portrait "Shirley", a high contrast still life "Shirley" and a lower contrast landscape "Shirley" might be examples.

This is the exact type of reply I'm looking for - I hadn't thought of picking a universal reference negative to work from. Thank you for this

 

[pentaxpete]

My paper is also now well expired but 'fridge stored' -- I found the 'White Base' goes 'Yellow' quite badly.

 

[MattKing]

I'd start with some negatives with a decent range of colors and a neutral area; something like a colorful cityscape in daytime with a patch of cloudy sky for instance.

+1, although having some flesh tones in there is a really good idea.